Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Group Buy - Massive Rallye BBK

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • OK, playing with the narrow caliper, here are my results.

    Lee provides an ~4.4mm riser spacer for the narrow caliper. The caliper only needs about 2.2mm to mount, so you can get it inboard with a 2.2mm thick spacer without any caliper or radial mount modifications. In the standard location, I measured 2.9mm of clearance to the tightest point between the rotor and the caliper, so theoretically, you might be able to find a little bit more space than the 2.2mm.

    With the caliper moved in 2.2mm, it will just about clear with 10mm of spacer. It just barely touches at the same tight spot as previously observed, but a few seconds with a grinder will solve that.

    Now, all that said, based on where it just barely contacts on the wheel, which is right at the point where the barrel reaches its narrowest diameter, I believe that it is *plausible* that you could get down to a 5mm spacer, or maybe even no spacer with some more aggressive clearancing of the caliper. There is a lot of excess metal at the ends of the calipers.
    2011 BMW M3 Alpinweiß
    2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD
    1990 325is Brilliantrot

    1989 M3 Alpinweiß
    Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
    Hers: 1989 325iX Zinnoberrot

    Comment


    • See attached for a couple of photos with the wheel bolted down on a 10mm spacer. As noted above, there is a very slight touch condition at certain parts of the wheel that I have, but that’s eminently solvable with a touch of the grinder.

      The last picture shows the touch location on the wheel. It is my belief that you can find enough clearance in the caliper to make this work with less or no spacer, but this is as far as I can take it.
      Attached Files
      2011 BMW M3 Alpinweiß
      2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD
      1990 325is Brilliantrot

      1989 M3 Alpinweiß
      Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
      Hers: 1989 325iX Zinnoberrot

      Comment


      • Thanks for confirming my earlier findings that these calipers will not work as advertised. So frustrating on so many levels. Looks like neither caliper will work with a Kosei K1 WITHOUT a spacer, grinding the caliper or both.

        I'm moving to 17" wheels along with using the AP Racing caliper. I know this is going to be a huge improvement in braking, especially on the track where my car sees the most use, so I am excited to finish this project.

        Appreciate everyone's feedback and work on this group buy and subsequent fitment issues. Thanks also to LeeVuong for continuing to provide quality upgrades for our cars.
        1990 M3

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post
          Thanks for confirming my earlier findings that these calipers will not work as advertised. So frustrating on so many levels. Looks like neither caliper will work with a Kosei K1 WITHOUT a spacer, grinding the caliper or both.

          I'm moving to 17" wheels along with using the AP Racing caliper. I know this is going to be a huge improvement in braking, especially on the track where my car sees the most use, so I am excited to finish this project.

          Appreciate everyone's feedback and work on this group buy and subsequent fitment issues. Thanks also to LeeVuong for continuing to provide quality upgrades for our cars.
          I have always run 15" Kosei and have 3 full sets. My question is what 17" wheels are out there best for track use? Light and Strong and not that expensive.
          Dan

          88 M3
          Black on Black

          San Diego, CA
          USA

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 99M3Riverside View Post
            My question is what 17" wheels are out there best for track use? Light and Strong and not that expensive.
            When available the OG APEX ARC-8 in 8x17 ET20 is a great choice. 17.4lbs. This wheel has BBK clearance and does not require a spacer for correct fitment. Unfortunately they are currently unavailable new, but I heard directly from Jake Bonelli at APEX that the ARC-8 was going back into limited production this fall. Previously sold for $259 per wheel.

            The other option, which I will be evaluating soon, is the 8.5x17 ET40 Kosei K1. 16.8lbs This wheel will require a spacer (20mm) to clear the strut, but will bring the overall offset to ET20. A slightly narrower spacer (18mm) can be used in the rear. $196 each at Tire Rack.

            After these choices you get into the custom manufactured wheel in order to get the correct sizing and offset. I emailed Leonardo Cinel about his DTM replica. He makes a 5-bolt 8x17 ET20 wheel which is almost an exact match to the late (1992) DTM wheels. This is a fully forged wheel so it is not cheap. €3060 + €600 shipping. This converts to approximately $4316 which, for a set of forged wheels (including shipping from Italy) is not bad. Plus they are period correct for our cars if you are into that sort of thing.

            https://www.cinelforgedwheels.com/prodotto/dtm/

            I am sure there are other wheels out there that will work, but if you are looking for light, strong and low cost, the APEX and Kosei would be my first choices.


            1990 M3

            Comment


            • 99M3Riverside
              99M3Riverside commented
              Editing a comment
              It would make sense for the Apex wheels. I do want to see Jon's setup with how he got the 15" Kosei to work. That involves 15mil spacers.

          • Anyone who is committed to keeping the Koseis, I'm about 85% confident that you can make it work with no spacers and a little more work on the caliper with a grinder. With minor adjustments, it's very close to working as is.

            I will say, though, that roll center spacers are *really* nice.
            2011 BMW M3 Alpinweiß
            2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD
            1990 325is Brilliantrot

            1989 M3 Alpinweiß
            Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
            Hers: 1989 325iX Zinnoberrot

            Comment


            • Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post
              Anyone who is committed to keeping the Koseis, I'm about 85% confident that you can make it work with no spacers and a little more work on the caliper with a grinder. With minor adjustments, it's very close to working as is.

              I will say, though, that roll center spacers are *really* nice.
              You're referring to the small caliper with 10mm spacers only?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post
                I will say, though, that roll center spacers are *really* nice.
                Curious to know how you think roll center spacers (bump steer) will help fit the caliper under the Kosei without using a wheel spacer and without grinding the caliper.

                1990 M3

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post

                  Curious to know how you think roll center spacers (bump steer) will help fit the caliper under the Kosei without using a wheel spacer and without grinding the caliper.
                  Roll center spacers are the big perk of larger wheels. They don’t help wheel clearance.
                  2011 BMW M3 Alpinweiß
                  2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD
                  1990 325is Brilliantrot

                  1989 M3 Alpinweiß
                  Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
                  Hers: 1989 325iX Zinnoberrot

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mick View Post

                    You're referring to the small caliper with 10mm spacers only?
                    You can definitely make it fit with 10mm spacers, a half size vertical shim on the caliper, and just a light touch of the grinder.

                    I am nearly certain that you can make either 5mm or no spacer at all work with a heavier hand on the grinder.

                    2011 BMW M3 Alpinweiß
                    2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD
                    1990 325is Brilliantrot

                    1989 M3 Alpinweiß
                    Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
                    Hers: 1989 325iX Zinnoberrot

                    Comment


                    • If someone is looking for a cheap pair to experiment with, keep an eye here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilwood-FNS...qwAAOSwQZRfMKr x
                      2011 BMW M3 Alpinweiß
                      2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD
                      1990 325is Brilliantrot

                      1989 M3 Alpinweiß
                      Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
                      Hers: 1989 325iX Zinnoberrot

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post
                        If someone is looking for a cheap pair to experiment with, keep an eye here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilwood-FNS...qwAAOSwQZRfMKr x
                        Ok, I bid on them. My regular set of calipers are due to arrive Tuesday, which are also the narrow ones, and I've got a set of 15" Kosei's and a set of 16" wheels. And I have a grinder.
                        Dave.
                        76 M2

                        Comment


                        • Someone else wanted them more...
                          Dave.
                          76 M2

                          Comment


                          • Wow, there is a lot going on in this thread since I last checked in.

                            Would one of you be willing to weigh the stock caliper and rotor, and then the Wilwood caliper and Lee's rotor hat w/ whatever rotor you went with? Lee has never been able to answer the question on how the weight of his kits compare to stock pieces. I've been curious for a while, especially for the smaller Rallye kits. I reckon they may be close to stock weights, whereas the larger 332mm+ kits are going to end up weighing more no matter what.

                            It's a bummer that these don't fit the Kosei K1's, but honestly, it's got to be time to start considering replacing those. The newest ones have to be, what, 10 years old? And the oldest 20+ years old. These were never particularly strong wheels to begin with. Do consider the fatigue life of them, especially for those of you tracking your cars.

                            Suitable 15" and 16" wheels are nearly impossible to find new these days. Due to the lack of tires available and my car having roll center spacers, I moved up from 16" to 17" wheels this season. There are a lot of good choices in a variety of price points. Konig's spun-forged wheels at a low price point (17x8 and 17x9), Apex (cast and forged) in a variety of widths and offsets, Kosei K1's (new, cast) in 17x8.5, Bimmerworld TE:AL fully forged in 17x8.5 or 17x9 (I went with these in 17x8.5, they are awesome). There are many, many more options out there. Tire selection is better (still not great for 24" diameter) in 17".

                            With clean hubs, quality hubcentric spacers, and quality wheel studs, you shouldn't have any reservations running reasonably sized spacers (5-20mm) on the track. Peruse the paddock next time you're at the track and you'll find nearly ever car is running them for various reasons (strut clearance, brake clearance, hard to find wheels that fit absolutely perfectly without spacers). Basically all E36's, for instance, run 12-20mm spacers up front for brake/strut clearance when using large wheels and tires.

                            Do not buy from "Low Level"!

                            Comment


                            • mwagner10702
                              mwagner10702 commented
                              Editing a comment
                              This is the conclusion I came to after finding my Koseis would not fit over either the Wilwood or AP caliper (without modifications / spacers). Last week I found a set of OG APEX 8x17 ET20 ARC-8 wheels at ECS. No spacer needed. Will pair these with a set of 235/40R17 NT-01 tires.

                          • Originally posted by Digitalwave View Post
                            It's a bummer that these don't fit the Kosei K1's, but honestly, it's got to be time to start considering replacing those. The newest ones have to be, what, 10 years old? And the oldest 20+ years old. These were never particularly strong wheels to begin with. Do consider the fatigue life of them, especially for those of you tracking your cars.
                            I have 4 sets of Kosei's and I have largely considered what you just posted. But the reality is that with 15" wheels and larger sidewall tires we have much less impact on the wheels when driving on track/curbs/etc. Any research i did at one point with all the damaged Kosei wheels out there always was focused on 17" wheels, not a lot of failures I could find relating to 15" wheels and I think the shorter spokes on them along with more sidewall cushion is the reason.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X