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  • #16
    Curtis, Yep I have looked at the Holley Hydramat, certainly looks interesting. Really interesting.

    I would love to see / hear / read some road racing people using it and some detailed real life feedback on it before buying in.
    I like the concept though and it would eliminate the need for surge tanks if it works like they say it will.

    EDIT: I had not looked into the Hydramat since before it was actually available.
    Since replying to your your post I searched and looks like its out there being used.
    Looks promising.
    Last edited by jimmy p.; 10-24-2017, 04:48 PM.
    jimmy p.
    87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
    88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
    88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
    92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
    98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
    04 Ford F350 - V10

    Comment


    • #17
      So I installed this setup as described with the exception of the O44 pump and filter location. I placed the pump and filter on the vertical right rear passenger seat area underneath the car. Basically where the back of your heals would be if you were sitting in the rear seat. I placed it where if you were to remove the factory lift pump access panel you could see both the pump and filter easily in order to service both without going underneath the car. Also being sure to mount the pump as low on said panel as possible to be as low as or a little lower than the bottom of the cell.
      The car started and ran perfect so off to Sebring I went for an SCCA weekend of racing! For practice, qualy and a 20 min sprint race I ran approx 10 gallons the car ran flawlessly. My next race was a 30 min sprint so I put a few more gallons in and went for it. Much to my surprise on the second to last lap in the middle of turn 17 which if you are familiar with Sebring is a hard, long and bumpy right hander it starved for fuel????? It repeated starving on the last lap in the same corner so I soft pedaled it on the cool down lap then into the pits. Wanting to know how empty the cell was I proceeded to fill the cell with 5 gallons then as I was pouring the second 5 gallon fuel jug the cell overflowed after only 3 gallons went in? If my math is correct that means there was approx 4 gallons left in the cell?????
      Not sure what the issue may be considering I have the ATL 3 door surge tank, one way valve etc.....Am I missing something?

      Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated.

      After looking It seems I can buy and fit all the individual pieces for a low pressure lift pump assembly into the existing 3 door ATL surge tank if necessary.

      Thanks!!!!!

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      • #18
        Pics
        Attached Files

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        • #19
          Your install looks pretty similar to mine.
          Have you verified your pickup line is cleanly making it to the bottom of the 3 door tank?

          The standard fill plate has the lines quite wide for the 3 door surge tank, If you center it in the cell they have to make a fairly aggressive S bend to get down into it.
          I redrilled new holes in my fill plate so the pick lines go straight down into the tank.
          Not saying thats your issue, but I would verify you are getting your pickups to the floor of the surge tank.

          Also make sure none of your doors are hung uo / open.
          With the same setup I am able to pretty much run mine dry.

          On a side note I am surprised the cell with the perforated metal hold down passed SCCA tech.
          I am an SCCA racer as well.
          I had to make a 090 "hat box" to go over mine to satisfy the metal box rule as the outer shell of the cell is not compliant without a metal box (at least at my last reading of the rules).

          PS: your install looks great. I'm sure there is something simple causing your starvation issue.
          jimmy p.
          87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
          88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
          88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
          92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
          98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
          04 Ford F350 - V10

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post
            Your install looks pretty similar to mine.
            Have you verified your pickup line is cleanly making it to the bottom of the 3 door tank?

            The standard fill plate has the lines quite wide for the 3 door surge tank, If you center it in the cell they have to make a fairly aggressive S bend to get down into it.
            I redrilled new holes in my fill plate so the pick lines go straight down into the tank.
            Not saying thats your issue, but I would verify you are getting your pickups to the floor of the surge tank.

            Also make sure none of your doors are hung uo / open.
            With the same setup I am able to pretty much run mine dry.

            On a side note I am surprised the cell with the perforated metal hold down passed SCCA tech.
            I am an SCCA racer as well.
            I had to make a 090 "hat box" to go over mine to satisfy the metal box rule as the outer shell of the cell is not compliant without a metal box (at least at my last reading of the rules).

            PS: your install looks great. I'm sure there is something simple causing your starvation issue.
            Jimmy, that will be my first thing to check since I noticed the lines bending as I put the fill plate on due to the length of them.

            I didn't place my surge tank in the middle I placed the surge tank at the back of the cell according to ATL suggestions after I cut a section of foam out for it to drop in.

            I will have to look into SCCA rules about the box, thanks for pointing that out. I passed annual tech earlier this year when I didn't have the new cell so it hasn't gone through tech since.

            Thanks again for the advice Jimmy!!!!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Curtis I may have been misleading, mine isn't actually in the "middle" (true middle) of the cell (centerline fore/aft - L-R)
              Mine is centered directly under the line of the supply / return hoses so that they go straight down into the surge tank.
              That shifts it a bit rearward of center, but I did not place it at the extreme rear wall of the cell.
              It took me redrilling my plate as I posted above to get those extreme S bends out of the lines.

              I don't know if I have any recent pics of my cell but I also rotated the fill plate 180 from standard orientation (how yours shipped) and then added the two additional holes for the lines I wrote about.
              That move moved the surge tank rearward and took out any bends at all.
              I now have a few holes that are capped and unused. It looks a little silly but it works much better.
              Hindsight being what it is I would have just bought the cell with a blank fill plate if they offered one,

              If I cannot find any recent pics I'll take some and email to you when I get home in Jan.
              Last edited by jimmy p.; 11-28-2017, 08:35 AM.
              jimmy p.
              87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
              88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
              88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
              92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
              98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
              04 Ford F350 - V10

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post
                Curtis I may have been misleading, mine isn't actually in the "middle" (true middle) of the cell (centerline fore/aft - L-R)
                Mine is centered directly under the line of the supply / return hoses so that they go straight down into the surge tank.
                That shifts it a bit rearward of center, but I did not place it at the extreme rear wall of the cell.
                It took me redrilling my plate as I posted above to get those extreme S bends out of the lines.

                I don't know if I have any recent pics of my cell but I also rotated the fill plate 180 from standard orientation (how yours shipped) and then added the two additional holes for the lines I wrote about.
                That move moved the surge tank rearward and took out any bends at all.
                I now have a few holes that are capped and unused. It looks a little silly but it works much better.
                Hindsight being what it is I would have just bought the cell with a blank fill plate if they offered one,

                If I cannot find any recent pics I'll take some and email to you when I get home in Jan.
                Ok I understand Jimmy. As soon as I get some free time I will drain the tank and try to reconfigure the feed and return hoses and check all is functioning ok.

                When you cut the cell foam for the surge tank did you cut it so it was tight against the surge tank or did you cut it loose with room on the sides? I was concerned the foam being to close to the trap doors may interfere with them.








                Comment


                • #23
                  I cut the foam pretty close. It holds it in place pretty firmly.
                  I just traced around the surge tank with a razor knife.
                  jimmy p.
                  87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                  88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                  88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                  92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                  98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                  04 Ford F350 - V10

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    It seems like a lot of people use the round cylindrical facet pump (red top) as their lift pump. facet doesn't; market it as a lift pump but say that it can lift up to 24 in. This would be sufficient when using a well cell. I did notice that they have a line of pumps, designed specifically for lifting fuel called duralift http://www.facet-purolator.com/dura-lift-pumps.php. Anybody use this? Would it be a better choice or am I 'trying to fix what ain't broke'?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I know a lot of people use lift pumps including the factory back in the day (my Gruppe A car has a Facet),,, but in the name of simplicity I figured I would try mine on the club race car without and see if it worked. If it did not I could always easily add the lift pump in later.
                      With my mounting config of my '044 below the cell level I have never needed a lift pump.
                      The factory mounted the '044on the trunk floor (above the cell) so thats why I assume they used / needed a lift pump.
                      Last edited by jimmy p.; 12-12-2017, 11:20 AM.
                      jimmy p.
                      87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                      88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                      88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                      92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                      98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                      04 Ford F350 - V10

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Does it really matter if your fuel pump is below the cell level if it still has to come out of the top then down through the trunk? I can't argue with the results as you have shown it to be effective. Just thinking. I will be using an external surge tank so I think I will mount both pumps somewhere in the trunk.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Back when I did mine I spoke to a US Bosch Motorsports distributor when I bought my 044 pump (they were not as commonly available at that time), he told me the '044 pushed much better than it pulled which is why many people use a lift pump with it depending on its location relative to the fuel supply.
                          He said if you mount it below your fuel cell with a one way valve on the feed side to maintain prime you can run it without a lift pump.
                          Thats what I did (tried) and have been running it like that since around 1998.
                          For all I know it might have worked just as well in the trunk above the cell, I just have never tried it there.
                          jimmy p.
                          87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                          88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                          88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                          92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                          98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                          04 Ford F350 - V10

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Curtis, did you make that cover/tie down for your cell? Looking for a way to secure mine.

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                            • #29
                              Ttw18, I made some measurements, gave my fabricator friend my fuel cell and then he cut and water jetted the cover out for me.

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                              • #30
                                Update.... I purchased the atl in tank surge tank with lift pump and installed it this past weekend. I noticed the car started quicker due to fuel pressure building up faster. Ill be racing Daytona this May 5-6 to see if helps the starvation problem.

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