Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BMW Club Racing 2010 Final rules are published.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • BMW Club Racing 2010 Final rules are published.

    E30 M3 Touring Car class starts on page 65

    http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/stat...2010-v15.5.pdf

    http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/Info...rTheRacer.aspx


    http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/
    sigpic
    2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion
    2011, 2013 SCCA Runoffs Super Touring Under 3.0L Bronze Medalist
    2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year
    2012 SCCA Northeast Divisional STU Champion
    2015 SCCA Runoffs STU Polesitter

  • #2
    Re-installing the OE header and fabbing a new exhaust for our JP car. Oh, and adding some ballast. See ya in '10 with M3T decals!
    Christopher

    www.brmmotorsports.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Eric for the link to the rules. I read it quickly. Polycarbonate (Lexan) is okay? Even DTM cars didn't run Lexan if I recall correctly... Who in the comitee has Lexan and wants his car to pass? Only stock brakes accepted? Nothing about cages. Door beams can be removed? For the sake of safety?

      With all due respect (please don't take it personally, your work is still appreciated), the whole thing is a complete nonsense.

      Happy New Gear to everyone. See you in Vintage racing.

      Lee


      [email protected]

      1969 2002 racecar
      1989 M3 racecar
      e39 Touring

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LeeVuong View Post
        Only stock brakes accepted?
        Lee
        "BMW OEM single piston floating calipers from any model"

        E46 M3 calipers anyone? :gotcha:

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mazur View Post
          "BMW OEM single piston floating calipers from any model"

          E46 M3 calipers anyone? :gotcha:
          Increasing piston size will only lead to imbalance, and therefore worst braking caracteristics. e28 calipers are bolt-ons and have a slightly bigger piston area than stock M3. But this is not an improvemet in any way. Still heavy, still flexy, still with rubber boots that melt. And still expensive pad selection that keeps you at the mercy of a few vendors...But hey, we know who the sponsors are...


          [email protected]

          1969 2002 racecar
          1989 M3 racecar
          e39 Touring

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LeeVuong View Post
            With all due respect (please don't take it personally, your work is still appreciated), the whole thing is a complete nonsense.
            Lee
            LOL.. Lee says, " Don't take it personally when I kick sand in your face.." LOL.. [peace] but really... your work is appreciated... BWAHAHAHAHA...

            C'mon Lee.. What if I said your brake kits SUCK, but your work is appreciated Ha! Trying to sugarcoat such a statement is disingenuous.
            Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 01-01-2010, 06:23 AM.
            Mark Williams
            Dallas, TX

            Nothing says "welcome to the neighborhood" like a search... oh wait... looks like they are all gone! :rastajake:

            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
              LOL.. Lee says, " Don't take it personally when I kick sand in your face.." LOL.. [peace] but really... your work is appreciated... BWAHAHAHAHA...

              C'mon Lee.. What if I said your brake kits SUCK, but your work is appreciated Ha! Trying to sugarcoat such a statement is disingenuous.
              Well said thank you.
              sigpic
              2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion
              2011, 2013 SCCA Runoffs Super Touring Under 3.0L Bronze Medalist
              2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year
              2012 SCCA Northeast Divisional STU Champion
              2015 SCCA Runoffs STU Polesitter

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LeeVuong View Post
                Increasing piston size will only lead to imbalance, and therefore worst braking caracteristics. e28 calipers are bolt-ons and have a slightly bigger piston area than stock M3. But this is not an improvemet in any way. Still heavy, still flexy, still with rubber boots that melt. And still expensive pad selection that keeps you at the mercy of a few vendors...But hey, we know who the sponsors are...
                MC bore size is also free. I'm sure someone could figure out something that works well.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've never on one occasion thought my stock brake setup was inadequate.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lee,
                    I didn't read your comment as offensive to Eric. You said the truth. you appreciated his hard work but are not satisfied with the final product. I am sure as a vendor you've heard that before and YOU didn't shrivel up and die or need someone else to defend you. In fact I believe you have complimented Eric more than once.

                    Writing rules is a difficult job. Not much different than writing laws. If you want them to be good, fair and enforceable you need to write, rewrite, accept criticism, rewrite, allow adequate time for peer review, rewrite, and then publish. So yes Eric you did work hard and it is appreciated.

                    Now lets look at those M3T rules. The cage regulations are in the initial paragraphs

                    C. E30 M3 Touring Car Class rules stand alone and do not use allowances
                    from the Stock or Prepared classes unless specifically noted herein.
                    Roll cages must meet the requirements specified for the Prepared
                    classes.

                    Rules are to be read as written and applied as written, not as how most or all racers have interpreted them historically.

                    The cage rule says you must meet the requirements of Prepared classes, it does not say you are limited to those requirements.

                    If you were not allowed to exceed the requirements it would say: Roll cages are limited to(or to be built the same as) the requirements for the Prepared classes. The "if it doesn't say you can, then you can't" rule does not apply. Why? Read the sentence before the cage reference: E30 M3 Touring Car Class rules stand alone....No where in the M3T rules is it stated that there is a "if it doesn't say you can the you can't" rule.

                    To justify this interpretation consider a college degree. You are told you must meet certain requirements, if you exceed them you still get your degree. You still followed the rule. If you build a cage that exceed a Prepared cage you STILL built a cage that MEETS the requirements.

                    Now this interpretation may apply to you Eric. Since the M3T rules are outside the rules of other classes and no where in the M3T rules does it say that a bolt in cage will be grandfathered to meet the requirements. You are just SOL as your car sits.

                    Happy cage building, Rob

                    1989 Diamond Black M3
                    2004 Jet Black 330i ClubSport

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by B Ball View Post
                      I've never on one occasion thought my stock brake setup was inadequate.
                      Me too. Ask anyone in JP who has been out braked by me.
                      sigpic
                      2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion
                      2011, 2013 SCCA Runoffs Super Touring Under 3.0L Bronze Medalist
                      2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year
                      2012 SCCA Northeast Divisional STU Champion
                      2015 SCCA Runoffs STU Polesitter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
                        LOL.. Lee says, " Don't take it personally when I kick sand in your face.." LOL.. [peace] but really... your work is appreciated... BWAHAHAHAHA...

                        C'mon Lee.. What if I said your brake kits SUCK, but your work is appreciated Ha! Trying to sugarcoat such a statement is disingenuous.
                        Actually, the perceived ambiguity is that Eric is only the messenger here. As such, no criticism has been directed at him and I am trying to make sure he understand it. My appreciation of his work is to carry the "good news" on all the boards he sees fit, and defend a cause to which he seems close. His volunteering to the BMWCCA CR cause is indeed appreciated. I am the founding member of my own BMWCC chapter and understand the extend of the work. But if Eric starts taking remarks personally, then what can I do? These are not his rules, these are CR'S rules.

                        BTW Isn't a J-Prep-level cage just the same as a J-Stock-level cage? The most basic form of protection? Which gets worst when door protection bars get removed. Racers are mandated to have FIA date-compliant seats, HANS, right side net (all stuff that can be purchased from a vendor), but anything above basic rollover protection is forbiden. Pretty ambiguous decision.

                        BBall and Eric. The stock M3 brakes are sure enough to stop the car. Just as any stock brakes. But it doesn't have the finesse and feedback of a fixed caliper with multi-pistons, whatever the brand is. I wonder why Grp A, N, BTCC and DTM or Rally cars didn't have stock brakes if they are as good as that. So, if stock brakes are as good as multi-pistons, why ban multi-piston brake systems?
                        Last edited by LeeVuong; 01-02-2010, 04:31 AM.


                        [email protected]

                        1969 2002 racecar
                        1989 M3 racecar
                        e39 Touring

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JS154 View Post
                          Me too. Ask anyone in JP who has been out braked by me.
                          Ah, modesty

                          Moving away from the stock brakes is not about having better stopping power for me (I agree the stock calipers do a fine job) it's about the cost of consumables. I pay about $80 for a set of front pads and they last 2-3 times as long as a set of HT-10s in the stock calipers. Also rotors are much cheaper and last about twice as long.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mick View Post
                            Ah, modesty

                            Moving away from the stock brakes is not about having better stopping power for me (I agree the stock calipers do a fine job) it's about the cost of consumables. I pay about $80 for a set of front pads and they last 2-3 times as long as a set of HT-10s in the stock calipers. Also rotors are much cheaper and last about twice as long.
                            I'm not trying to be modest - I'm trying to make a point that in my experience, having outbraked many people in JP, the stock brakes are plenty sufficient.

                            Big brakes are allowed for the first 3 years - with an extra 100# ballast required to offset the competitive advantages.

                            In 3 years, if enough people want to keep big brakes they can lobby for a rules change to that effect.

                            Mick - how many track hours do you get per set of front rotors and per set of front pads?
                            Last edited by JS154; 01-02-2010, 05:24 AM.
                            sigpic
                            2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion
                            2011, 2013 SCCA Runoffs Super Touring Under 3.0L Bronze Medalist
                            2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year
                            2012 SCCA Northeast Divisional STU Champion
                            2015 SCCA Runoffs STU Polesitter

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JS154 View Post
                              Mick - how many track hours do you get per set of front rotors and per set of front pads?
                              Hi Eric

                              I am pretty sure you know Keith Hammitte. He races an e30 325. His consumption of brake pads and discs has been one set per two seasons and he does most if not all events on the East Coast. Obviously, results can vary from driver to drive, and brand of brake kit to another.

                              It's not about improving the braking power, but about heat management and modulation. It is also the cost of brake pads for a very small niche market compared to a generic caliper. Also, heat being a problem with stock rotors, vendors will often come up with expensive solutions such as cryogenically improved rotors, then breast-polished by Irish virgins in a Tibet ashram... Costly way to deal with heat stress cracking.


                              [email protected]

                              1969 2002 racecar
                              1989 M3 racecar
                              e39 Touring

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X