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Engine build....E85 content.

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  • Engine build....E85 content.

    I know there are plenty of threads on here about engine rebuilds but I thought I'd start a new one considering my build seems to be a little different to the norm. Most will know I was going to go the turbo path but had a change of heart..for the better
    I'll start with the basics:

    12.5:1 Mahle pistons
    2.3 block and crank
    PPM conrods
    292/284 Schricks
    Arrow shim under
    Supertech valves
    Standard 46mm TB's
    Eibach GB springs
    DTA S60 ECU and four coil setup.
    Sequential injection setup
    Markus's CF airbox and Lee's air filter setup
    FIC 650cc injectors
    E85
    Inline ethanol sensor
    Desperate for Morris's GB fuel rail

    Ok so there is nothing too special there I know but the E85 aspect seems to be something that hasn't been ventured into in our S14 world. Obviously I am hoping that the benefits of this fuel are going to prove worthy in an NA motor and maybe the information and experience I get can help those who have considered this path.
    The 46mm TB's may prove an issue but I have access to a set of 48's if I need them.
    The engine is being pulled as we speak so I'll keep people up to date as it goes together and gets ready to run.
    Last edited by Az in Oz; 05-21-2012, 03:28 PM.

    "But most of all...
    ... I like the way you move......"


  • #2
    I've thought of running E85 myself because I think there's a lot of potential, glad to see someone else taking the plunge. Not to dissuade you, but here are some things that I've been thinking of:

    Make sure you have any aluminum fuel rail Hard Anodized for corrosion resistance - there is a difference between "Anodized" and "Hard Anodized". Long term you would probably need to worry about the Aluminum TB's and cylinder head too - so might want to have some sort of coating applied to the TB's, intake ports, combustion chambers.

    Replace fuel lines with Stainless, Replace all Rubber fuel lines with hose graded for ethanol. Not sure if the fuel tank should be replaced or not? If I go that route sometime in the future, I was considering a fuel cell designed with ethanol in mind.

    You will need ~34% more fuel than straight gasoline. This may make your current fuel tank size, and fuel injectors inadequate. Plan accordingly. The good news is that you can still use your current WBO2 and current AFR targets, but it will still read 14.7 at stoichiometric even though that isn't the stoich ratio of E85... (WBO2 measures in lambda and converts to the AFR for gas...)

    The inline ethanol sensor is a good idea. Depending on the time of year, I think the actual ethanol percentage can vary from E50 - E90, so it would be nice to have the ECU tuned to detect and react to this.

    That's all I got right now, but subscribing...
    Last edited by Brendan; 05-21-2012, 04:06 PM.
    sigpic
    Track Car Build | COM Sports Car Club

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    • #3
      Wow. Great thread. I am contemplating this as well (NA - not FI). Subscribed. Best wishes with the project.

      -Dietrich

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      • #4
        Pretty aware of most of the requirements for E85. SS fuel lines aren't essential as ethanol is quite fine with most metals. The only real issue with aluminum is when it has water in it, but yes hard anodizing is a good idea. Funnily enough most rubbers and such that handle regular fuel will also take high ethanol fuels, this includes pumps.
        The extra fuel requirements are already taken care of with the 650cc injectors.
        I'm running your valve springs Dietrich, I'm sure they'll be excellent
        Last edited by Az in Oz; 05-23-2012, 11:13 PM.

        "But most of all...
        ... I like the way you move......"

        Comment


        • #5
          A small setback :(
          When the head was hardness tested prior to work commencing, it was found to be at the lower end of what the machinist would recommend in a few places ( most likely cooked by PO)
          This means I am going to have it o'ringed as a precaution. It's kind of good news because if I was going to go the turbo path I would have had to spend around $2k to get it fixed or find a better one.
          Oh well, that's cars for you I guess. Everything else is on track

          "But most of all...
          ... I like the way you move......"

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          • #6
            Our shop has done a ton of E85 conversions from all kinds of vehicles. We have not found any downside to E85 and plenty of upside with cooler combustion temps and higher octane ratings. Enjoy!
            Several E30 M3's.

            More than I need but not as many as I want....

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            • #7
              That is very good to hear.

              "But most of all...
              ... I like the way you move......"

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              • #8
                Been running E85 now for a few years, no down sides apart from cold starting,
                Good value compared to race fuel,
                My 2.5 engine although not as high of a compression as I would like ( built to last ) puts out just over 290 @ fly wheel.

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                • #9
                  That's great to hear Declan. Anything obvious I have missed or things that you learnt the hard way?
                  Aaron

                  "But most of all...
                  ... I like the way you move......"

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                  • #10
                    I've been thinking of using it as well on my S50B30. Only problem I have at the moment is finding somebody local (colorado) who can dyno tune the car and burn a chip for my factory DME to run the higher octane.

                    Karl Kraus --Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to prove that
                    they are not idiots.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Eric View Post
                      I've been thinking of using it as well on my S50B30. Only problem I have at the moment is finding somebody local (colorado) who can dyno tune the car and burn a chip for my factory DME to run the higher octane.
                      Might be tough without some sort of a standalone. In addition to needing ~35% more fuel, all of the settings for cranking and cold starts will be different to deal with the different properties of the fuel. Also, E85 tends to vary throughout the year (Here in the US E50 - E90 depending on which pump and what season) so having an ECU that can deal with the changing conditions would be good.

                      Glenn and Declan: Have you had any issues with the different mixes at the pump? Would hate to tune at E85, and pick up a tank of E50 and either damage the engine because of the lower octane, or have it run pig rich and hardly run because of the lower ethanol %...

                      You guys have me thinking... That can be dangerous to my wallet
                      Last edited by Brendan; 06-06-2012, 12:28 AM.
                      sigpic
                      Track Car Build | COM Sports Car Club

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                      • #12
                        As for fuel mix I can avail of a local supplier who can mix it on site to my requirements Legally,
                        We stuck to E85 for cold starting and so that you can see it if goes on fire, Note old NASCAR videos,
                        As for it being corrosive, 4 years down the line and no signs of any. in fact every thing looks like new,
                        You do use a lot more fuel at about 25% to 30%, OK for a race engine as it helps keep things cool not so good for the road unless it's rebated,
                        Also be careful to keep it free of moisture,

                        Declan..

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brendan View Post
                          Might be tough without some sort of a standalone. In addition to needing ~35% more fuel, all of the settings for cranking and cold starts will be different to deal with the different properties of the fuel. Also, E85 tends to vary throughout the year (Here in the US E50 - E90 depending on which pump and what season) so having an ECU that can deal with the changing conditions would be good.

                          Glenn and Declan: Have you had any issues with the different mixes at the pump? Would hate to tune at E85, and pick up a tank of E50 and either damage the engine because of the lower octane, or have it run pig rich and hardly run because of the lower ethanol %...

                          You guys have me thinking... That can be dangerous to my wallet

                          No problem with the mixes since the O2 sensor uses lambda which compensates for the different fuel mixtures, hence the reason most vehicles can be dual fuel without adding extra 02 sensors. The minor changes you get in E85 won't affect your tune. Besides, you have quite a bit of margin with 104 octane E85.
                          Several E30 M3's.

                          More than I need but not as many as I want....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eric View Post
                            I've been thinking of using it as well on my S50B30. Only problem I have at the moment is finding somebody local (colorado) who can dyno tune the car and burn a chip for my factory DME to run the higher octane.
                            Come by the shop, MAC Autosport, Parker CO. macautosport.com, ask for Nick, he is the tuner.
                            Several E30 M3's.

                            More than I need but not as many as I want....

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                            • #15
                              That's some good feedback there thank you guys. I had heard that a lot of the hype about corrosion was bullshit...expect for aluminum when you get allot of water in the mix. I have access to 116 octane race E85, so I will be tuning on pumpgas and for track work I'll add a 50/50 mix of the good stuff. I'm hoping my 12.5:1 comp will help get more of the benefits from this fuel.

                              "But most of all...
                              ... I like the way you move......"

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