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  • #16
    Originally posted by The Ancient
    I use a Haltech E6K on one of my cars and would really like to try the MoTec on an M3. I suspect 275 rwhp in a very streetable tune would be readily achievable with a bit more compression and head work?
    On which car? I'm installing the E6K on the M3 next week. I'd be interested in any insight you might have.

    Cheers,
    Kev - itching to have the S14 breathe easier

    /// M3NTAL Kev

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    • #17
      Bexley Motor Works use a Sun Ram XII dyno.
      "It's not the mountain we conquer but ourselves"

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      • #18
        I have an E6K running my Mazda Rx7 single turbo setup. It uses an MSD amplifiers and coils off a hall effect trigger. I would think you'd use a crank angle sensor for the M3. You lock the Haltech and the crank angle sensor and set the timing. You may want to use a Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor instead of a MAF sensor. You also need to hook up the fuel injectors to control duty cycle directly. I have an air/fuel meter so I can tune the haltech fuel injector duty cycles to get to my target A/F ratio. Somebody on the forum should know what the best target AF is for the S14. I suspect its slighty over stoichometric. Perhaps 15.5:1 or so? Further, you can control an Aquamist water injection system to further lower detonation. Then, you're either running safer at the targeted AF or you can increase the AF and maintain the same safety factor you have without it and get more power.

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        • #19
          Did Lenz ever complete thier direct Motronic swap piece?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by HANDBLT
            Did Lenz ever complete thier direct Motronic swap piece?
            I'm guessing yes. Don't know the cost though. Here is a PDF.

            http://www.lenzmotorentechnikusa.com...W_E30_M3_2.pdf

            90 Sterling 2.5L E30///M3 lifer
            97 Porsche Carrera S
            13 Audi S6
            SOLD 03 Audi RS6 daily
            GONE 88 E28///M5 project

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            • #21
              That has been on there site for months. I was just wondering if anyone knows of an install? I know the last I talked to them they were doing early adopter specials. The cost of the system was around $2200USD and they would pay for the initial dyno tuning setup. Not a bad deal if it all worked out.

              Tony

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              • #22
                I don't know how many of you are really familiar with the aftermarket standalone systems. It seems that many M3 owners are used to "chip" changes on their stock ecu's. These are never really very good solutions for several reasons. First, the chips are at best set up for a specific group of changes, like "exhaust", "intake", etc. The company that provides the chip sends out what is just a new fuel and timing or just fuel map that he is pretty sure is rich enough (overly rich) that nobody's engine is going to detonate. The result of this is that the new power is never anywhere near optimal, as anyone who has had their car tuned on rollers with a lambda meter tuning for optimal AF will tell you. In some cases the chip may actually result in somewhat less power, because it ends up being way richer than before and despite the hardware mods, it doesn't make as much power.

                What is important to understand is that a very small change in AF will cause a very large change in power until you go too lean. And, this canno9t be done without the lambda sensor. I remember when I was tuning my Hartge modded E36 325 at Autothority in 1993. They put the car on the dyno and we sat in there with a laptop and would add or subtract fuel and and timing and see what happened to power. It was very unscientific and iterative process that muddled along. You need to tune the AF to an optimal level and then adjust timing.

                Also, with the MoTec and Haltech (and MicroTec and...) systems you have an incredible amount of control. The better systems let you tune 32 points (every 250 rpm) for fuel and timing versus air pressure or flow. Also, it lets you adjust throttle tip-in and decay at a series of points, which allows you to keep the re-tuned motor equally as responsive or more than stock and still smooth and driveable. The chips don;t do that, since they are just the basic maps. (I'm really going on here...) Also, they let you adjust for temperature changes in a precise way.

                Further, the better stuff lets you control everything else that way. If you have an uprate fan system, you can control whether its on or off and on low or high based on temperature and rpm. You can control the fuel pump. And -- my favorite -- you can control a water injection system. (The Brits love this stuff, the Aussies used to hate it, but now like it, and the Americans are still trying to spell it...) Once I saw how much it could reduce cylinder temperatures and detonation, I loved it. If you ran a 15:1 AF without it safely, you an run, say, 16.5:1 with it. If power before was 240 rwhp, then that change might make 275... Its a big difference. It let's you run a lot more compression and a lot leaner without detonating and that will make the most change in power per dollar of anything you can do, once you have a good intake/exhaust.


                Blah, blah, blah...

                (www.aquamist.co.uk )

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                • #23
                  A few of us in Sacramento were thinking about doing our own Motec kit as it seems that there is a lot of interest for it. As of right now though, VAC Motorsports is putting together a Motec kit for the e30 M3. I actually by chance called them today to get a price, but they wont be sure for another few weeks. Expect around $3500-$4500 (Just a guess). I do know that Powerstation will ship to the U.S., but again the strength of the dollar might hurt you there. The plus side of the Powerstation kit is that you can use your stock wiring harness and install most of it yourself. You only need to get some Dyno time to get a proper tune (they do give you a base program so you can drive to the shop). No matter what, order the wide-band O2 sensor. This way the car stays in closed loop all the way through full throttle. A nice plus! Hey with the Motec you can even get traction control! It is the top dog of engine management out now.

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                  • #24
                    Plug and play systems are great, if the thing you plug in is any good. One of the things I've noticed over the years is that a lot of guys buy some new EMS and then they can't get the kind of support they need with it. This has actually been a problem for MoiTec. Haltech and AEM have big users support groups on the internet, so you can ask qquestions and get them answered pretty easily. MoTec doesn;t have a web support group yet that I'm aware of.

                    The new AEM EMS dhas more features than even the MoTec, is cheaper, and has very nice 3D programming, as does the Haltech Halwin system on both the E6K and E11. The Haltech has the same traction control as the MoTec,, but I think the MoTec may still be the only one with different gear-related maps. Since the greatest risk of detonation is at the peak cylinder pressure and that happens so fast in the lower gears, it is best to have maps for the forst 2 gears that keep the AF's down to a safe level thru the rpm where peak torque occurs, wherweas in the higher gears you can run leaner down low and just richen it up around the torque peaks. There's just less load on the motor.

                    http://www.haltech.com.au/Products/ECUs/E11/e11.html

                    http://www.aempower.com/ems.htm

                    http://www.motec.com/home.htm

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                    • #25
                      I noticed AEM doesnt have applications for BMW's. Any idea if the sensor inputs are adaptable to different applications ie:BMW Coolant sensors, T.P.S. Air temp etc.? Also any idea on pricing for an ECM, software and necessary wiring?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by The Ancient
                        Plug and play systems are great, if the thing you plug in is any good. One of the things I've noticed over the years is that a lot of guys buy some new EMS and then they can't get the kind of support they need with it. This has actually been a problem for MoiTec. Haltech and AEM have big users support groups on the internet, so you can ask qquestions and get them answered pretty easily. MoTec doesn;t have a web support group yet that I'm aware of
                        That is exactly the reason I went with the E6K. There are at least 2 reputable tuners in the Toronto area that have extensive experience with the E6K. That offers a lot of peace of mind. I would have love to use a more exotic EMS, but at the end of the day, having the M3 up and running quickly and well out weighed many of the options I may never use.

                        /// M3NTAL Kev

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                        • #27
                          Haltech Support Group online email group

                          M3ntal Kev: Join this email group for Haltech support. They are very knowledgeable and helpful:


                          [email protected]

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                          • #28
                            Wookie 1976: The AEM (like most of these EMS') will use almost all sensors. You just need the wire harness. The only possible issue is the ignition triggering. I am pretty sure (without, however, checking) that you can probably convert your BMW to a crank angle sensor trigger and run it with the AEM. Almost all EMS' will run off that. And, it is very accurate.

                            The AEM is very inexpensive at about $1100-1200 with everything. And, it has more features and is easier to tune than most of the older systems. I watched as these units have come out and each new one is cheaper, faster and more full--featured. As M3NTAL will tell you, he probably paid about $2000 all in for his Haltech and its very nice. I don't know if he got the Halwin software, but that brings the Haltech E6K up to the newest standards and very similar to the E11.

                            (BTW, AEM bought the older Wolf 3D system)

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