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  • #16
    Thanks for checking with the oil companies. I currently use Amsoil 20-50w Racing Oil.

    I didn't find anything on Amsoil's site regarding zinc content. Only wear tests:
    Photobucket

    If finding oils with enough zinc level is an issue then a alternative is to add some motorcycle oil to your auto oil, since motorcycles require more zinc content to protect the gears. The engine oil is the same oil for the transmission in a motorcycle.

    Of course this will reduce the service life of the catalytic which motorycles typically don't have.
    Pat

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    • #17
      Seems like ZDDP is freaking everyone with solid lifters out, including me. The MG guys have done alot of research and I found alot about the subject of ZDDP.

      Spent about an hour this morning looking at all the articles on the web and found this one. It's a 3 part series about finding the right oils with the right additive package.



      http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=49

      From what I've found Royal Purple and Redline are the synthetic to go with and for nudnicks like me who use dino oil then Valvoline VR1 20-50 is the way to go.

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      • #18
        Castrol GTX 20-50. $10.00 for a 5 qt jug at Wallmart.
        Change it about every 2000 mi. :cheer2:

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        • #19
          Originally posted by m3pat2 View Post
          Of course this will reduce the service life of the catalytic which motorycles typically don't have.
          The only thing I find "fishy" about Amsoil, is that there is a TON of information on the web but if you really dig into the write-ups it's clear they are all made by the company and not by unbiased entities even though this info is scattered among sites that do not appears to be amsoil's corporate site.



          - Tire is the other control arm bushing.

          zhpregistry.net

          Comment


          • #20
            From the Mobil 1 website (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...il_1_FAQs.aspx):

            Why are you reintroducing Mobil 1 15W-50? Have there been any changes to the formulation, or is it identical to the previous product?

            Mobil 1 15W-50 is being reintroduced based on popular demand. Mobil 1 15W-50 provides higher viscosity, designed to provide extra protection for performance vehicles and vehicles that operate in severe service, such as towing, hauling and racing. Additionally, Mobil 1 15W-50 contains higher levels of anti-wear (ZDDP or Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate) that may be required for certain racing applications and camshaft designs. This is a new Mobil 1 15W-50 formulation and is not the same as the product that was marketed a few years ago.



            This information implies that the current 15w-50 product should be fine.
            2003 Mitsu EVO VIII - 2.0L / 600+whp
            1988 BMW M3 turbo - Work in progress. . .
            1986 SVO Mustang - Work in progress. . .

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            • #21
              Originally posted by NSXM3 View Post
              Castrol GTX 20-50. $10.00 for a 5 qt jug at Wallmart.
              Change it about every 2000 mi. :cheer2:
              Only problem is its not the same castrol you always knew.
              They have reduced the ZDDP in it, so regardless how much you change it, it will never have the correct amount in it even when right out of the bottle protecting the high pressure points like cams and rod bearings.

              The whole intent of my post was to hopefully spread any knowledge to everyone to carefully evaluate what they are putting in their engines, as what you have come to know and trust for decades has all changed in the mass market retail oils.

              I dont believe any of the currently available over the counter oils are suitable for use.
              Well I know I wont be putting any of them in my M3s.

              I have made my choice,,, and I think I made a solid one.
              I just want everyone to be made aware what you always believed to be true, is probably not true unless you are using oils like Red Line, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Brad Penn, Swepco, Lubrication Engineers, Valvoline Racing "off road" - "Not street Legal" or any of the Motorcycle oils.

              HTH
              jimmy p


              - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - AUTOMERGED! There's no thread "bumping" or "double posting" within a 24hr period. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


              Originally posted by OnrailsM3 View Post
              From what I've found Royal Purple and Redline are the synthetic to go with and for nudnicks like me who use dino oil then Valvoline VR1 20-50 is the way to go.
              Just make sure the Valvoline Racing is the "Not Street Legal" one. There are two formulas apparently.
              The off road one is the one that still has the ZDDP in it.
              The other one apparently does not from what I have read.
              HTH
              jimmy
              Last edited by jimmy p.; 02-03-2008, 11:20 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
              jimmy p.
              87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
              88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
              88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
              92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
              98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
              04 Ford F350 - V10

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post
                Only problem is its not the same castrol you always knew.
                They have reduced the ZDDP in it, so regardless how much you change it, it will never have the correct amount in it even when right out of the bottle protecting the high pressure points like cams and rod bearings.

                The whole intent of my post was to hopefully spread any knowledge to everyone to carefully evaluate what they are putting in their engines, as what you have come to know and trust for decades has all changed in the mass market retail oils.

                I dont believe any of the currently available over the counter oils are suitable for use.
                Well I know I wont be putting any of them in my M3s.

                I have made my choice,,, and I think I made a solid one.
                I just want everyone to be made aware what you always believed to be true, is probably not true unless you are using oils like Red Line, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Brad Penn, Swepco, Lubrication Engineers, Valvoline Racing "off road" - "Not street Legal" or any of the Motorcycle oils.

                HTH
                jimmy p


                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - AUTOMERGED! There's no thread "bumping" or "double posting" within a 24hr period. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



                Just make sure the Valvoline Racing is the "Not Street Legal" one. There are two formulas apparently.
                The off road one is the one that still has the ZDDP in it.
                The other one apparently does not from what I have read.
                HTH
                jimmy

                Yeah, I just was in Autozone today and looked at the back of the Valvoline VR1 20-50 bottle and it clearly stated it contains ZDDP and other friction modifiers.

                It was this one.
                http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post
                  The whole intent of my post was to hopefully spread any knowledge to everyone to carefully evaluate what they are putting in their engines, as what you have come to know and trust for decades has all changed in the mass market retail oils.
                  Thanks Jimmy & ShiftBMW,
                  You've convinced me to switch. I've been using Mobil 1 for years and would never have given it a second thought had you not brought this up. The only reason I used it was because it was readily available at the local parts store.

                  Looks like I'll be ordering Redline from now on. I'd been meaning to switch for a while now anyway.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    From: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...otor_Oils.aspx

                    Question:
                    Has Zinc Been Removed from Motor Oils?

                    Answer:
                    The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached table.

                    Table: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

                    This table shows Mobil 1 15w-50 at 1200ppm "Phosphorus". I'm not certain if this figure is expressed as %P or as ZDDP, but I suspect the latter. FWIW, this is equivalent to what the Redline engineer quoted for their recommended 10w-40, and is 50% greater than the regular multi-viscosity 20 and 30 weight grades.
                    Last edited by Ted B; 02-03-2008, 01:56 PM.
                    2003 Mitsu EVO VIII - 2.0L / 600+whp
                    1988 BMW M3 turbo - Work in progress. . .
                    1986 SVO Mustang - Work in progress. . .

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by OnrailsM3 View Post
                      Yeah, I just was in Autozone today and looked at the back of the Valvoline VR1 20-50 bottle and it clearly stated it contains ZDDP and other friction modifiers.

                      It was this one.
                      http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50
                      Hey Matt,,,
                      Not that one
                      This one: http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?Product=94

                      They all still have ZDDP in them, just not enough (< 800ppm vs 1200+ ppm)
                      The one thats labled "Not Street Legal" is the one you want (well its got the elevated levels above the 800PPM that they have all dropped to) according to what I have ben reading.


                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - AUTOMERGED! There's no thread "bumping" or "double posting" within a 24hr period. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


                      Originally posted by Mick View Post
                      Thanks Jimmy & ShiftBMW,
                      You've convinced me to switch. I've been using Mobil 1 for years and would never have given it a second thought had you not brought this up. The only reason I used it was because it was readily available at the local parts store.

                      Looks like I'll be ordering Redline from now on. I'd been meaning to switch for a while now anyway.
                      Me too on the Mobil 1 Mick,
                      I had a 4 maybe 5 year supply built up of Mobil 1, which I just exhausted end of last year.
                      I never even considered switching. I did use some of the HDEO's like Rotela and Delvaq for some purposes (engine break in, and in my trucks).
                      For the E30 M3s, I opted to switching to the Brad Penn Racing oil.
                      It used to be the Kendall GT1, before Conoco bought the name.

                      I based that purchase on knowing alot of drag racers, dirt track racers and tractor pull guys who "torture" their engines and they swear by it based on camshaft and rod bearing wear (or lack of it) and all the reading I had done while preparing for my next oil stock up.

                      Cheers
                      jimmy
                      Last edited by jimmy p.; 02-03-2008, 03:41 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
                      jimmy p.
                      87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                      88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                      88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                      92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                      98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                      04 Ford F350 - V10

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        This discussion has prompted me to do a bit of reading too, and it appears as though while readers should know the details of matching oils and applications, certain things I see here appear to be somewhat alarmist in nature and short on details and a few pertinent facts that put things into proper perspective (especially considering Mobil 1 oils).

                        The changes in phosphate content are of concern mostly to those with flat tappet valvetrains (like ours) and high-perf valvetrains with substantial spring pressure. However, these changes appear to concern primarily 20 and 30 weight oils, which while used by virtually every new vehicle today, are not typically recommended in older and/or high-performance vehicles. These oils are best suited to newer, factory spec vehicles, not ours. No one here should be using these.

                        The notion that Mobil 1 15w-50 has 'reduced' ZDDP appears to be contrary to both Mobil's published statements and published analysis (1200ppm ZDDP). The Mobil 1 website clarifies quite plainly that the reduction in ZDDP applies specifically to the 20s-30s, and is in compliance with the current mandated regs. They recommend the 15w-50 for older engines, specifically stating the increased ZDDP content of this oil as the primary reason why.

                        Our engines should be fine with 40-50 weight oils, selected for sufficient ZDDP. I'd also recommend an oil with less multi-viscosity polymers, but that's a different topic entirely . . .
                        Last edited by Ted B; 02-03-2008, 04:21 PM.
                        2003 Mitsu EVO VIII - 2.0L / 600+whp
                        1988 BMW M3 turbo - Work in progress. . .
                        1986 SVO Mustang - Work in progress. . .

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          All this talk of oil had me curious seeing I have used Mobil 1 for many years in my M3 with good results. I went into the garage and checked some containers of oil I had and found some interesting things. I have a 5 qt of M1 “gold cap” 15/50 that is SM but also have a 1 qt M1 “gold cap” that was purchased after the jug as a top off and it’s SL. So an older formulation. With higher ZDDP or the same? This plays into what has been mentioned in that Mobil has changed the formulation with no change in appearance of the bottle. Ie. Gold vs. silver vs. red cap. So that cannot be used to differentiate them. (must read the fine print on the back)

                          I also had a qt of BMW 5-30 synthetic (Castrol) left over from changing the oil the wife’s X3 and it is SL as well. So I guess (if I read some of the websites above correctly), the SL should have higher concentration in the lower weights and it would seem that BMW is sticking with this? Or do I just have old stock from the dealer?

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                          • #28
                            http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?Product=94

                            Is this Valvoline "Non street legal" oil, synthetic? Is this comparable to Redline or Mobile 1 15-50?

                            I've been using Castrol Syntec 20-50. Now I'm confused...

                            Can't wait for the conclusion... which oil will be best for our car...
                            Last edited by Robert; 02-04-2008, 03:03 PM.

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                            • #29
                              I'm sticking to my Mobile1 15-50
                              1988 Diamantschwarz



                              "The original M3 is utterly brilliant in ways the people at M have either forgotten about or choose to ignore."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I've always thought that older cars needed a thick oil...the thicker the better. Over the years, the S14 has been known for eating up rod bearings and not be very reliable but why can't it be? Did BMW M really make this engine a fragile timebomb? or is it something else? Why does the rear main seal tend to leak so much? Is there such thing as too much oil pressure? I think this is partially due to running too thick of an oil. Thicker is not better...anymore.

                                If you consider that most of the wear occurs at start up, you need a lower viscosity oil that'll flow better when cold but still protect the engine at high RPM. I don't think many oils at the time were capable of doing this so they compromised with 15w-40 (like HDEO Delvac, Delo)...not as thick as 20w-50 but not as thin as 10w-30. Still most E30 M3 owners use 15w-50 or 20w-50 which is on the thicker side of the spectrum. I think we should all be running a lighter weight synthetic. Another member, Solo2M3? ran several used oil analyses between 2 or 3 weights and brands of oil and determined Redline 10w-40 to give the lowest wear numbers and cooler oil temps. I imagine just about any quality synthetic 10w-40 would give similar results as well.
                                Last edited by Reelizmpro; 02-05-2008, 12:45 AM.

                                88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
                                89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
                                85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
                                91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH


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