Announcement

Collapse

S14.net 30 years of M3 and updated Achtung stickers:

See more
See less

Spark Plug thread continued...

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spark Plug thread continued...

    I would recommend the NGK Iridium IX plugs over over the Denso; they cost a whole lot less and I have yet to see any difference in performance or life

    http://www.ngkiridium.com/
    A friend will come bail you out of jail, but a TRUE friend will be sitting next to you in the jail cell saying, "Dude, that was focking awesome!"

  • #2
    >>>I would recommend the NGK Iridium IX plugs over over the Denso; they cost a whole lot less and I have yet to see any difference in performance or life<<<

    But you have next to zero E30 M3 experience, you said you are looking for one recently. Or was this incorrect? Motors like the S14 seem to behave a bit differently with different plugs, so credible experience may be important here... Just to be clear, on which car did you no notice "any difference in performance or life".

    Stan
    Last edited by Stan; 06-11-2004, 10:49 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      well true, they have worked well in many other vehicles I've been involved with, personal and associates, and just because I do not have as much S14 experience as yourself doesn't necessarily make me ignorant or misinformed

      however, if you spec out the equivalent plug between NGK and Denso, and you haven't had any issue with Denso, then it's highly unlikely you'll have an issue with the NGK. It's a very high quality plug.

      I'm just offering it as an alternate, if you want to spend $4/plug more for a Denso be my guest

      then again, I'm nobody special so feel free to ignore anything you ever see posted by me :cool:
      A friend will come bail you out of jail, but a TRUE friend will be sitting next to you in the jail cell saying, "Dude, that was focking awesome!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh I agree NGK as a company is good and so are their spark plugs. I know for sure that the normal NGKs are good plugs for our cars. But remember that the S14 has a weakish ignition system, tends to foul plugs, heat ranges get tricky and so forth. Some people who track their car start it up using hot street plugs, then when it's warmed up they swap the plugs to Bosch XR4cs or 2cs. Things like this are why it's a good idea to get some actual real world experiences, hopefully from a few sources under various conditions, weather, motor tunes. I've found that the motor responds well to ignition upgrades such as a better spark box. This can often allow the lump to use a wider gap (like contemporary engines) while avoiding fouling and plug life issues.

        Stan

        Comment


        • #5
          Oh I agree NGK as a company is good and so are their spark plugs. I know for sure that the normal NGKs are good plugs for our cars. But remember that the S14 has a weakish ignition system, tends to foul plugs, heat ranges get tricky and so forth. Some people who track their car start it up using hot street plugs, then when it's warmed up they swap the plugs to Bosch XR4cs or 2cs. Things like this are why it's a good idea to get some actual real world experiences, hopefully from a few sources under various conditions, weather, motor tunes. I've found that the motor responds well to ignition upgrades such as a better spark box. This can often allow the lump to use a wider gap (like contemporary engines) while avoiding fouling and plug life issues.

          >>>I'm just offering it as an alternate, if you want to spend $4/plug more for a Denso be my guest <<<

          Not exactly, your post(s) sounds EXACTLY as though you've combed the market and tried 'em all on our cars and have found a way to save a few bucks. But you haven't done this. I've run both of the Denso heat ranges in my car and like them. i didn't find WOT power of any significance over the just prior plug, but I did find good idle / driveability characteristics.

          Stan
          Last edited by Stan; 06-11-2004, 11:03 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            nor have you proven the NGK Iridium IX plugs don't work in the car

            perhaps we should both STFU :idea:

            as for weak ignitions, this is exactly where an iridium plug proves to be beneficial
            A friend will come bail you out of jail, but a TRUE friend will be sitting next to you in the jail cell saying, "Dude, that was focking awesome!"

            Comment


            • #7
              >>nor have you proven the NGK Iridium IX plugs don't work in the car<<

              I'm not the one making claims about them. You are.

              >>perhaps we should both STFU as for weak ignitions, this is exactly where an iridium plug proves to be beneficial<<

              Mark Sipe, I am well aware of the nature of iridium plugs. Note that the Denso irridium plugs have a smaller electrode diameter than the NGKs. I think it's 0.4 versus 0.6 mm from memory. The Denso's are resistor plugs, can't recall about the NGKs.

              My main point is not to mislead people with your E30 M3 spark plug experiences when you have none. This does not mean that NGks suck and that Densos are great.

              Since you are now interested in E30 M3 because they may prove to be the "right" car for a new SCCA National Classification, you are likely particularly interested primarily in WOT performance. This is an area where the iridium plugs do not appear to benefit the S14 motor with it's weak ignition. WOT, rich is actually pretty easy to ignite, you need the right heat range too.

              Note that part of the reason why iridium plugs work well in idle / cruise / part throttle conditions is because the center electode is small in diameter...and that the two brands noted vary greatly in this area as I previously noted. You can do the same thing to conventional plugs - grind a small center electrode. And there may be some benefits from doing so, but the plug won't last long at all. Maybe a few hundred miles. Iridium is so wear resistant in this application that a very small electrode becomes feasible. If you look at the dyno charts where power was "found" using iridium plugs, they tend to be on forced induction motors of very high specific output.

              Stan
              Last edited by Stan; 06-12-2004, 12:13 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't mind anyone recommending a product or a service as long as it specifies exactly in what Model of vehicle the positive experience is relevant to in the experience of the poster. Then I can suss it out from there.

                I've had really positive experiences with NGK spark plugs in Bosch supplied four cylinders and it is the factory supplied plug for VR6 VW engines.

                I've had negative experiences with Autolites in my VWs but they work much better than Bosch or NGK in my Zetec powered se7en, which would barely idle on the two latter brands.

                I would like to use a brand of plug in my S14 that is more tolerant than the Bosch of the liquid rich conditions that are typical with stock Motronics. Experimenting with plugs in this car can get expensive.

                So bring on the suggestions, just be more specific in describing the success
                m..
                Last edited by Mmark; 06-12-2004, 12:23 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've only used the Denso's so far, but i'm sure the NGK's are fine also ,as i've used them in other cars with good results. I have to play around with different plugs since i have such a special application in regards to the S14 engine.

                  It's probably best to use recommendations as a starting point and then try different setups to see what works best for you.
                  Turbo S14-(Sold)

                  "....the BMW 4 cylinder turbocharged M13 engine reached nearly 1500bhp in qualifying trim!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the advantage of iridium designs is they transfer spark power more readily. If you have a weak or marginal ignition system; poor OE design, forced induction, etc. you will not necessarily see more peak power, but rather more consistent ignition. However, if you have a strong ignition system the iridium plug allows you to run a much larger gap than a conventional plug. If you use the std. gap on an iridium plug it's not likely you'll see any performance gain. Please note that I never made any claim about power or any other factor regarding iridium plugs, I simply stated that IMO the NGK iridium plug is available for a much lower price as a direct replacement for Denso Iridium. If you are using a Denso Iridium successfully then due to my past experience in a number of non-S14 applications (including my Z4 that spends most of it's running time at WOT as have my other previous vehicles) I am confident the NGK Iridium IX plug will also perform to your satisfaction.

                    On Stan's behalf allow me to say that I have not run an NGK Iridium in an S14 engine (and the implication is that neither has he), though this will be my first choice when I get to that point. I do work with a number of different people on various projects, not just BMW's but many other manufacturers, and in every case NGK Iridium plugs have been used with very good success, including every single case where they replaced Denso Iridium plugs.

                    The NGK Iridium plugs are a resistor type. I understood this thread to center on street driven vehicles, not outright dedicated racing engines. I cross referenced the NGK Iridium plug using their std E30 M3 standard plug recommendation and came up with the following part number: DR8EIX. They offer a 1 step colder plug in this same configuration: DR9EIX. The part number breakdown is as follows

                    D - 12mm thread diameter
                    R - Resistor type
                    8 - Heat range (1 - 11, higher number = colder)
                    E - 19mm thread reach
                    IX - Iridium type

                    For those of you familiar with the E30 M3 spark plug specs if the diameter and thread reach dimensions are incorrect please let me know, I only used the info supplied to me by NGK and don't know how accurate it is


                    The site I provided the link to in an earlier thread sells this plug for $6.95 each, a set of four with shipping would be approx. $35. I personally do not consider this to be a significant investment. Since neither I or Stan have any experience with this plug in an S14 application I am willing to purchase and ship a set to a neutral member of this board for their use and feedback posted back to the board. This is not a first come, first serve offer. I will be selective of who will receive the plugs. PM me to get your name in the hat.

                    Mark
                    Last edited by TeamM3; 06-12-2004, 03:16 PM.
                    A friend will come bail you out of jail, but a TRUE friend will be sitting next to you in the jail cell saying, "Dude, that was focking awesome!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Can we split this thread please? The spark plug content seems to make a good thread on it's own.

                      Jake Larsen <-- Not sure how to do it myself.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        fwiw, not a single response on my offer, so much for stepping up to the plate ...
                        A friend will come bail you out of jail, but a TRUE friend will be sitting next to you in the jail cell saying, "Dude, that was focking awesome!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TeamZ4
                          fwiw, not a single response on my offer, so much for stepping up to the plate ...
                          I think that it would be a good comparison, but I think the nature of the comparison is incorrect. I am getting the vibe that it would be to determine who was right in the argument about spark plugs. I have no problem trying out different plugs and reporting the results, but for casual reasons. Perhaps this is why nobody has taken up your offer?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wookie1976
                            I think that it would be a good comparison, but I think the nature of the comparison is incorrect. I am getting the vibe that it would be to determine who was right in the argument about spark plugs. I have no problem trying out different plugs and reporting the results, but for casual reasons. Perhaps this is why nobody has taken up your offer?

                            perhaps, I was just willing to do more than talk about it, i.e. walk the walk :cool:
                            A friend will come bail you out of jail, but a TRUE friend will be sitting next to you in the jail cell saying, "Dude, that was focking awesome!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mmark


                              I've had negative experiences with Autolites in my VWs but they work much better than Bosch or NGK in my Zetec powered se7en, which would barely idle on the two latter brands.
                              Not exactly E30 M3 related, but aircooled VW.. and could apply here as well.. but watch out on plugs. NGK and bosch use rolled threads, Champion, Autolite, etc use cut threads. I've heard of cracked VW heads using non-NGK/bosch plugs if they had more then 5k miles on them with the wrong plugs. Just my opinion and observation. I do not feel you should have anything other then NGK, bosch, or Denso plugs on your motor...unless it was designed for another brand of plug.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X