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Should new Bilstein sports feel this still.

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  • Daniel
    replied
    Originally posted by stevesingo View Post
    RE the ground control camber plates, is the the Touring plates?

    The touring plates are a good thing for lowering as the distance between the spring platforms remains the same, the loss of ride height if from the smaller rubber above the spring platform. This means you are not using shock travel to lower the car, you are moving the upper spring platform closer to the strut top.
    I just saw those last week and will be thinking long and hard about getting them. I think my car is running the Race plate though. I suspect that this race plate is part of the reason the ride feels harsh over bumps.

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  • stevesingo
    replied
    Originally posted by Daniel View Post
    Thanks for posting Steve, that is very helpful. How did you get up into the fender with it sitting on the ground to measure the compressed height of the assembly? Or maybe you had it on a lift? Your 570mm ride height, is that from the bottom side of your wheel lip (between tire and lip) to the fender? After raising my car I am at ~535mm ride height. It was ~510mm before. Which makes it sound like I would practically be bottoming these out just sitting (which honestly it kind of felt like). Though I am running Ground Control camber plates, which I think changes the stack height. I guess I really need to get up in the fender and take a bunch of measurements like you have to try to figure out where I am sitting now.

    As my car is near to stock ride height, I managed to reach up with the tape rule on to the upper spring platform and read off on the bottom spring platform.

    My 570 ride height is with 16" wheels and Sport Evo fenders which have a 10mm higher arch. So with stock arches I'd be 560mm and stock arches and 15" wheels 547mm.

    RE the ground control camber plates, is the the Touring plates?

    The touring plates are a good thing for lowering as the distance between the spring platforms remains the same, the loss of ride height if from the smaller rubber above the spring platform. This means you are not using shock travel to lower the car, you are moving the upper spring platform closer to the strut top.



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  • stevesingo
    replied
    Originally posted by caneswell View Post
    Lovely work Steve!

    One comment I had was that if you are hoping that a bump stop will halt the movement in 2mm of travel you'd have to make it so stiff you may as we'll be coil bound! I think the large rubber top mount should help though.

    The remaining question is why on earth do Bilstein spec such a long bump stop in these dampers which are specifically for lowered cars.
    The 2mm is full travel without the bump stops in place. As it stands I have 135mm before the bump stops and 25mm of bump stop.

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  • caneswell
    replied
    Lovely work Steve!

    One comment I had was that if you are hoping that a bump stop will halt the movement in 2mm of travel you'd have to make it so stiff you may as we'll be coil bound! I think the large rubber top mount should help though.

    The remaining question is why on earth do Bilstein spec such a long bump stop in these dampers which are specifically for lowered cars.

    Leave a comment:


  • nauqneyugn
    replied
    So does anyone have a gland nut/ring nut tool they want to sell?

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  • RAD2LTR
    replied
    Originally posted by Daniel View Post
    Thanks for posting Steve, that is very helpful. How did you get up into the fender with it sitting on the ground to measure the compressed height of the assembly? Or maybe you had it on a lift? Your 570mm ride height, is that from the bottom side of your wheel lip (between tire and lip) to the fender? After raising my car I am at ~535mm ride height. It was ~510mm before. Which makes it sound like I would practically be bottoming these out just sitting (which honestly it kind of felt like). Though I am running Ground Control camber plates, which I think changes the stack height. I guess I really need to get up in the fender and take a bunch of measurements like you have to try to figure out where I am sitting now.
    The ground control camber plates drop the car about 1.5 inches. I'm thinking about selling mine and buying some Vorshlag ones.

    Will

    Leave a comment:


  • Daniel
    replied
    Thanks for posting Steve, that is very helpful. How did you get up into the fender with it sitting on the ground to measure the compressed height of the assembly? Or maybe you had it on a lift? Your 570mm ride height, is that from the bottom side of your wheel lip (between tire and lip) to the fender? After raising my car I am at ~535mm ride height. It was ~510mm before. Which makes it sound like I would practically be bottoming these out just sitting (which honestly it kind of felt like). Though I am running Ground Control camber plates, which I think changes the stack height. I guess I really need to get up in the fender and take a bunch of measurements like you have to try to figure out where I am sitting now.

    Leave a comment:


  • refused
    replied
    Holy heck, when it comes time to redo my suspension I know where to get good information!

    Leave a comment:


  • stevesingo
    replied
    I spent yesterday measuring , stripping, examining, ect my Bilstien inserts.

    Firstly I took a measurement of the compressed strut (spring plate to spring plate) with the car sat on flat ground- 112mm.

    Measured front ride height- 570mm (16” wheel Sport Evo fender-Equivalent to 560mm with 16” wheel and Stock fenders and 557mm 15” wheel with stock fender)

    Then raised the car and measured the extended strut (spring plate to spring plate) - 240mm

    If we take the compressed measurement from the extended measurement 240-112= 128 mm compression.

    We believe the Bilstien has 82mm travel before the bump stops, so it would seem that the car is sat on the bump stops and compressing them by 128-82= 46mm

    To confirm this I stripped the struts and measured the travel.

    Extended -120mm

    PIC

    Compressed by hand – 20mm

    PIC

    So I have 18 mm more travel than we think I should have. Why?

    I pulled the inserts and knocked off the end caps (Simple!) and this is what I found.

    PIC

    Bump stops are shot to pieces! This was the same both sides. The car must have been riding on these the whole time, so it is not surprising they let go.

    I estimate that the bump stops were about 80mm long and the length of the rod is 160mm in total, so that would make sense of the 82mm travel as stated by Bilstien.

    I was left with no choice but to trim off the damaged portion which left me with 25mm of bump stop and put them back together. This leaves me with 135mm of free travel in the shock before the bump stops take effect.

    How much travel do we need? Well, I am already on 128mm of compression, so I have 7mm remaining before the bump stops.

    The other consideration is the spring becoming coil bound. This would be a serious issue as the suspension becomes solid in such a case.

    My spring is 240mm long and is made of 6 coils of 13mm wire. It’s coil bound length is 6*13= 78mm. Take this from the compressed length and we should get the remaining travel 240-78=162mm of spring travel, or 2mm more than the total shock travel less bump stops.

    Conclusion- I will not become coil bound before the bump stops take effect. All OK on that front!

    After putting it back together I went for a short drive and it is more supple on the front end. A longer more spirited drive will be needed before a full conclusion can be made.

    For the record the whole effort took about 2 ½ hrs.

    Leave a comment:


  • m3pat2
    replied
    Originally posted by stevesingo View Post
    The bump stops sit outside of the pressurised chamber, so no worries.

    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=239380

    Thanks Steve! I should have probably read through all the links, but I haven't had much time lately.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daniel
    replied
    Originally posted by caneswell View Post

    From what we've concluded so far that 13" measurement would be compressing the bump stops 1.6 inches and be almost locked solid.....I think we are missing something here!!

    I think the change in camber means that the motion ratio is not 0.93 at the outer wheel rim.....,no idea what it is though :-)
    It does seem like it. My before measurements from the ground were 23 3/8" front, 23" rear, and after from the ground are 24 3/8" front 23 3/8" rear. It seems a lot of those folks running Billy/H+R were at about the same as me now.

    Leave a comment:


  • caneswell
    replied
    Originally posted by Daniel View Post
    So does anyone with Billy sports that feel "right" have a ride height measurement they can share? After raising my car I am sitting at ~13" from center of the wheel to the fender on the front, and ~12" at the rear. Just curious if this should be high enough to get the billy sports from riding on the bump stops, or if I should go higher or cut the bump stops down.

    EDIT - think I found what I wanted - http://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s1...ight-samplings
    From what we've concluded so far that 13" measurement would be compressing the bump stops 1.6 inches and be almost locked solid.....I think we are missing something here!!

    I think the change in camber means that the motion ratio is not 0.93 at the outer wheel rim.....,no idea what it is though :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • hardtailer
    replied
    Originally posted by stevesingo View Post


    I disagree.

    You can’t take a measurement from the road surface to the centre of the hub as a valid measure of ride height. Such a measurement is a measure of wheel and tyre radius.

    Am certain the BMW method of measuring ride height is from lower lip of wheel to edge of wheel arch. An example can be seen on P30 of this PDF. It also explains that for every 1” increase of wheel diameter we must add 13mm to the measurement.

    http://www.bmwclub.lv/files/BMW_X5_S...on_Systems.pdf
    Oops, you are right...I had a few things mixed up there. Your remark that from the wheel center to the pavement one would be measuring tyre radius switched on the light for me :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Daniel
    replied
    So does anyone with Billy sports that feel "right" have a ride height measurement they can share? After raising my car I am sitting at ~13" from center of the wheel to the fender on the front, and ~12" at the rear. Just curious if this should be high enough to get the billy sports from riding on the bump stops, or if I should go higher or cut the bump stops down.

    EDIT - think I found what I wanted - http://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s1...ight-samplings

    Leave a comment:


  • stevesingo
    replied
    The bump stops sit outside of the pressurised chamber, so no worries.

    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=239380

    Leave a comment:

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