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J STOCK springs are BACK!!!!!!!!!

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  • kevnj
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for the info, will report back with the results.

  • mwagner10702
    replied
    Ken -

    If you are going to get the GC front Konis ask them if they can revalve the rears (8041-1289spgc) to work with 1000lb springs and get a set of their rear bump stops. The Konis they use are shorter in overall length which will work with a 5" spring (I have their rear Konis). I wouldn't use an extended RSM.

    If you move from the Bilsteins to the front Koni inserts you'll need a new pair of strut housing caps. Use part number 31 32 1 117 376.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    replied
    Cool enduro car. I own a M3 as well and have built the non-m to be the track toy. In the shadows there's still a bunch of people on S14.net who actively track there cars. There's a WEALTH of knowledge to be shared. I'm going to get the Bilstein dampeners re-valved to proper J-Stock specs once I get dyno plots to ensure there are no more disconnects.

    For the front inserts, I am now leaning towards doing the Koni SA's from GC as they are valved correctly for 700lb springs and allow me to get the ride height where I want it to be. For the rear I will either use the Bilsteins with an extended height rear shock mount or see if I can find something adjustable that can handle the 1K springs in the ~$250 a dampener price range.

    Leave a comment:


  • redneckvtek
    replied
    Originally posted by kevnj View Post

    Sorry if my posts have annoyed anyone, just an enthusiast trying to learn and share my experiences with the community.
    I apprecieate your posting bud, as another non-M e30 owner intruding on s14.net in order to get some J-stocks in my life. Overall, this forum has been a massive help to my race team and my suspension knowledge.

    I love your orange E30 - the ES front valence + plastic bumpers looks awesome.

    Plus, my E30 is the same color Orange, and also has a 4v swap (m54b25)

    Click image for larger version

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    Regarding the B6 struts - From what I understand from my bilstein contact, they are "taller" due to internal bump stop differences (when comparing RWD B6+B8). If needed, I can try and get more info for the front IX inserts.

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    IIRC the iX inserts are 3" shorter. Unfortunately Bilstein only offers the B6 not the B8. Probably a difference in valving which you will be changing anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    commented on 's reply
    Oh got it, yeah guess we were having two different conversations. I have seen that video, was watching it last night. I may go with e30 IX inserts, they maybe the ticket as they are shorter.

    Like anything all the tinkering can be fun but when you add up your time and the cost to go through a few iterations it ends up costing substantially more. You do tend to learn something so I guess that has value too.

  • mwagner10702
    replied
    Now that I see you have a non-M3 E30 the fender-to-wheel measurements I provided are probably not valid as I have an M3 which as you know has different fenders and cutout profiles. You mentioned "Using full length front strut assemblies with the billy sport inserts" confuses me (easily done) as I know the GC coil over conversion sections the front struts.

    Here is a link to a video showing this done. My apologies if you have seen this. Not sure what Bilstien cartridge the guy is using, however I noticed he is using 6" springs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q7xUSNRyLI

    Whatever Bilstein cartridge he is using it is shorter than a standard E30 cartridge as he uses a spacer to bring the top of the cartridge in line with the top of the strut housing. This is the same procedure GC uses with the Koni inserts.

    Not sure any of this is helpful to you or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    replied
    Hereís pics of the front passenger corner.

    The strut has maybe a little over 2 inches of travel but when you factor in the internal bump stop itís less then that.

    Thereís close to a 2 inch gap to the fender from the top of the tire. Iíll need to recheck my measurements from the pinch weld. I should be able to go much lower without having the control arms go beyond parallel.

    When I was using the 440ís up front vs the current 700ís the car was over an inch lower. The increase spring rates and dampeners raised the car up over an inch. Makes sense but surprised it made that much of a difference. Car weighs 2412 with me, my gear and a full tank of gas.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    replied
    Hereís the best pic of have of the struts assemblies with inserts. The camber/caster plates attach to the piston without any type of external bump stop.

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    Originally posted by kevnj View Post
    Iíve read from internet experts that GC konis cant handle 1000 lb springs and max out around 700.
    GC told me they valve their Konis for a range between 400lb to 900lb.

    Originally posted by kevnj View Post
    Do you think the konis are a better choice then fooling around with the Billys?
    Not sure. From what I gather reading this and other forums, some people prefer the Bilsteins and others prefer the Konis. I believe GC uses strut inserts from the VW Corrado (G60) in their shortened M3 struts. They also use a small length of tubing at the bottom of the strut as a spacer. This piece of tubing is cut to fit in order to properly align the top of the strut with the top of the shock body. But if you have full length struts then it is doubtful you can use a shorter strut.

    Does Spec E30 have ride height minimums? I know PRO3 does (car can't be lower than 5" from pinch weld to ground). Maybe GC configured their Spec E30 setup to not be able to be adjusted lower than the minimum ride height for the class.

    Does your setup look like this? (This is from an e36 but its the same on the E30)

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Suspension.JPG Views:	0 Size:	26.5 KB ID:	1281195

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    commented on 's reply
    I think your spot on, thank you for the feedback.

  • kevnj
    replied
    Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post
    I think the length of the J-Stock springs is irrelevant since the J-Stock spring sits in the OEM strut perch. Like you I have a Ground Control coil over setup and my spring lengths are:

    Front = 6.5"
    Rear = 5.0"

    So it would seems like your spring lengths are probably OK. Regarding ride height, I took some measurements of the front and the back of my car.

    Front:
    Top of wheel arch to center point of wheel = 12.5"
    Pinch weld (just behind jack point) to ground = 5.5"

    Rear:
    Top of wheel arch to center point of wheel = 12.0"
    Pinch weld (just behind jack point) to ground = 6.5"

    Looking at my front strut I definitely have enough threads to lower the car an additional .5". Looking at my rear ride height adjusters probably the same (around an additional .5") so I am curious how you can be maxed out on your adjusters. Are you running any helper springs? (That would increase stack height).

    I assume you are running Ground Control front camber plates. I ask because I've read where some brands add to the overall height.

    While not a direct comparison, I have the SA Konis (rebound only) and at a recent track day had some rear end bounce coming out of turn 2 and turn 7 at PIR. In both cases you are hard on the throttle just past the apex of the corner where it is a little rough. I adjusted the Konis to full still and backed off a 1/4 turn. The next time out the rear end was solid with no little to no bouncing. Based on my experience I would say the suggestion regarding your rebound settings being too light are probably spot on.
    Thanks for sharing all this. Iíd like to get the car about 1/2 an inch lower for it to be ideal. I am using a Ground Control Coilover kit that was the predecessor to the now Spec E30 set up. Using Ground Control Camber/Caster plates. Not using tender nor helper springs.

    Using full length front strut assemblies with the billy sport inserts. I have not measured but Iíd be surprised if I have more then 1-2 inches before Iím into the bump stops that weíre trimmed. On the passenger side Iím maxed out on the adjuster to full low. The real solution is going to be to shorten the assemblies and find Bilsteins that are shorter or go with Konis. I love how durable Bilsteins are and the low cost too. MCS is the ticket for sure but the price of entry is over my head.

    Iíve read from internet experts that GC konis cant handle 1000 lb springs and max out around 700. I have been meaning to talk to Jay but have been swamped at work. Do you think the konis are a better choice then fooling around with the Billys?

    I agree with you regarding the rebound. RE does allot of circle track setups and also asked about how much aero I had. Looking at the calculations that were done there was a mistake made for sure. Thereís definitely some improvements to be made but even in the current state the car is an absolute hoot and is perfectly neutral.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    replied
    More food for thought, while there are some more adjustments that could be made the non-M e30 with a stock M50 was able to keep up and pass much faster machinery at Summit Point In instructor and advanced groups

    I pointed by a factory built M2 turn key race car and a well driven 400 hp GT3, thatís it. So again, Iíd like to make some adjustments but itís fair to say the suspension changes made werenít a complete waste of money.

    Sorry if my posts have annoyed anyone, just an enthusiast trying to learn and share my experiences with the community.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    I think the length of the J-Stock springs is irrelevant since the J-Stock spring sits in the OEM strut perch. Like you I have a Ground Control coil over setup and my spring lengths are:

    Front = 6.5"
    Rear = 5.0"

    So it would seems like your spring lengths are probably OK. Regarding ride height, I took some measurements of the front and the back of my car.

    Front:
    Top of wheel arch to center point of wheel = 12.5"
    Pinch weld (just behind jack point) to ground = 5.5"

    Rear:
    Top of wheel arch to center point of wheel = 12.0"
    Pinch weld (just behind jack point) to ground = 6.5"

    Looking at my front strut I definitely have enough threads to lower the car an additional .5". Looking at my rear ride height adjusters probably the same (around an additional .5") so I am curious how you can be maxed out on your adjusters. Are you running any helper springs? (That would increase stack height).

    I assume you are running Ground Control front camber plates. I ask because I've read where some brands add to the overall height.

    While not a direct comparison, I have the SA Konis (rebound only) and at a recent track day had some rear end bounce coming out of turn 2 and turn 7 at PIR. In both cases you are hard on the throttle just past the apex of the corner where it is a little rough. I adjusted the Konis to full still and backed off a 1/4 turn. The next time out the rear end was solid with no little to no bouncing. Based on my experience I would say the suggestion regarding your rebound settings being too light are probably spot on.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    commented on 's reply
    Wasn’t looking to reinvent the wheel. Had Coilovers already. There is no turning back to stock spring perches when they are cut off.

    Does anyone have the dyno graphs for the front dampeners? Want to share them with RE to get the valving corrected.
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