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J STOCK springs are BACK!!!!!!!!!

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  • mwagner10702
    replied
    irdave - MCS is an expensive option for the M3. Basic non-coilover rear 2WR starts at $4,900. Then you need to add springs, torrington bearings, camber plates, etc . . . Probably more than the average M3 owner wants to spend. Of course having said that I have an MCS 2WR setup on my 1994 NSX and it is probably the best damper setup you can buy (IMO). Besides cost, another downside to the MCS suspension is that you need to send them your front struts for modification (i.e. similar to Ground Control where the spring perch is cut off) which of course does not allow you to return to stock should you wish.

    Regarding race class restrictions I know that some PRO3 racers here in the Northwest run a MCS 2WNR on their E30s which is a little less expensive than the setup for the E30 M3. PRO3 rules gives the driver free allowance for their suspension setup with the exception that remote canisters are not allowed. I believe SPECe30 does not allow for adjustable dampers.

    If you have the money to spend you can't go wrong with MCS.

    Leave a comment:


  • irdave
    replied
    I'm curious. Is the reason for dealing with basic shocks cost? Race class restrictions? I mean, damper technology has come a long way since the 80's. There's a lot more to it than just peak damping forces.

    I was running Ohlins DFV dampers in my e46m3 wagon and MCS 2WNR in my tii. Both are easily revalvable to whatever you want, including progressive or digressive valving- so changing the characteristic of the damper completely. My current car (2002 shell with complete e30m3 running gear, including change of location of the strut top) has GC mounting hardware with adjustable Koni's (GC spec, so revalved- and they have a couple of options) with Eibach springs for the time being- I'm contemplating e36 front bits to make them a little easier to replace should the worst happen- and will probably end up back on MCS.

    I think there were/are restrictions in some classes where the damper can't be externally adjustable, but for everyone else... Is there too much adjustability? Just looking for plug and play?

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    replied
    Originally posted by kevnj View Post
    Proctor750, what spring rates and dampeners are you running in the rear? My thoughts have been if your running something close to J stock there wouldnít be enough force to compress the rear end that much.
    On the spec car it's the official ground control conversion kit. Can't remember rates from the top of my head but indeed they are much stiffer and thankfully so as they have drastically improved tire wear albeit they aren't really any faster than the old setup. They are also a linear coil not progressive like the hr races before it.
    I'll try to take a photo of before/after with the ziptie at the champ race at NCM (we get all 4 on turn 1/2 curbing).

    The M3 has full Jstock now.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    replied
    Proctor750, what spring rates and dampeners are you running in the rear? My thoughts have been if your running something close to J stock there wouldnít be enough force to compress the rear end that much.

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    replied
    Originally posted by kevnj View Post
    ĎS


    Check these rear shock mounts out from Ground Control. They are designed to allow a longer shock like an E36 to be used on an E30.

    https://groundcontrolstore.com/produ...ck-mounts-pair

    Currently, Iím using Ground Controlís Coilover Spec E30 kit with Bilstein Sport dampeners. Looking to increase spring rates to match J Stock. For the rear, I want to use E36 PSS9 dampeners with the shock mounts posted above. Will be reaching out to Bilstein to see if the valving range can be within the Gruppe N spec. My buddy has a pair of E36 PSS9ís lying around so I figured why not give this a try. I like the concept that I will be able to tune the rear shocks dampening.

    For the front dampeners I will most likely get the E30 Sports custom valves to 300/200 or the 300/300 mentioned in this thread. My track car is a Non M E30 with a 24v motor swap so Iím thinking a bit more rebound than the 175 maybe the ticket.
    We run those rear mounts in our spec car - we place a small zip tie on the shaft of the shock to see how much compression we are getting. It just about makes it to the bottom of the mount.

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    commented on 's reply
    I was referring to the side effect of crimping, not the design purpose.

  • kevnj
    replied
    ĎS
    Originally posted by redneckvtek View Post


    Thanks. I sent Eric and email.

    The shocks are from Amazon, so back they go. Looking like the J-Stocks used if I can get them, or the Group N if not, are the way to complete this setup.

    Check these rear shock mounts out from Ground Control. They are designed to allow a longer shock like an E36 to be used on an E30.

    https://groundcontrolstore.com/produ...ck-mounts-pair

    Currently, Iím using Ground Controlís Coilover Spec E30 kit with Bilstein Sport dampeners. Looking to increase spring rates to match J Stock. For the rear, I want to use E36 PSS9 dampeners with the shock mounts posted above. Will be reaching out to Bilstein to see if the valving range can be within the Gruppe N spec. My buddy has a pair of E36 PSS9ís lying around so I figured why not give this a try. I like the concept that I will be able to tune the rear shocks dampening.

    For the front dampeners I will most likely get the E30 Sports custom valves to 300/200 or the 300/300 mentioned in this thread. My track car is a Non M E30 with a 24v motor swap so Iím thinking a bit more rebound than the 175 maybe the ticket.

    Leave a comment:


  • redneckvtek
    replied
    Originally posted by proctor750 View Post

    Right that's what I'm getting at. Maybe I can browse some of the E van forums or something to find out. Or call bilstein (never have luck getting that kind of info directly from a supplier).

    I also wonder if the crimping genuinely makes them tamper proof or if the one particular company just didn't want to fool with it (or didn't have tooling to deal with it if crimped..)

    I do have a helpful contact at Bilstein. She says the van shocks started being crimped at the end of 2018. Any stock older than 6mos would be rebuildable.

    The way I understand it, the crimping is done by a machine once the guts are inserted into the body. To get the guts out again, the crimps need to be grinded out, thus destroying the body. I suppose if you could purchase a replacement body, the same guts could be re-inserted after reparing or revalving, but the new body would need to be crimped by an expensive machine, or need to be different to allow a snap ring retainer method.

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    For those interested, here is a picture of a crimped Bilstein. The Group N Motorsports shocks are not crimped.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Crimped Bilstein.JPG Views:	0 Size:	33.8 KB ID:	1279702

    Crimping was done to lower manufacturing costs, not to make them tamper proof.

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    replied
    Originally posted by redneckvtek View Post

    That was specifically for the E30 OEM fit B8 Shocks, 24-020275. F4-B36-2027-H* is the bilstein nomenclature.

    I do not know for the econoline shocks when the changeover to crimp started.
    Right that's what I'm getting at. Maybe I can browse some of the E van forums or something to find out. Or call bilstein (never have luck getting that kind of info directly from a supplier).

    I also wonder if the crimping genuinely makes them tamper proof or if the one particular company just didn't want to fool with it (or didn't have tooling to deal with it if crimped..)

    Leave a comment:


  • redneckvtek
    replied
    Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post

    Per redneckvtek The crimping started at revision H4 (see post #133). Find shocks marked H0 through H3 and you may be OK. The complete nomenclature would be B46-1720-H1 . . . H3
    That was specifically for the E30 OEM fit B8 Shocks, 24-020275. F4-B36-2027-H* is the bilstein nomenclature.

    I do not know for the econoline shocks when the changeover to crimp started.

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    Originally posted by proctor750 View Post
    Also - as long as the econolines are from before the crimped revision it should be fine. When did they make that change? Wondering if the set we had our friend get is crimped - no word yet.
    Surely there is a large stockpile of non crimped variations out there, just have to ask the supplier to check the number (if indicated somewhere).
    Per redneckvtek The crimping started at revision H4 (see post #133). Find shocks marked H0 through H3 and you may be OK. The complete nomenclature would be B46-1720-H1 . . . H3

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    replied
    Originally posted by redneckvtek View Post
    I see post #126 says this:
    Just an FYI that was from the Econolines before sending them in to be revalved.



    Also - as long as the econolines are from before the crimped revision it should be fine. When did they make that change? Wondering if the set we had our friend get is crimped - no word yet.
    Surely there is a large stockpile of non crimped variations out there, just have to ask the supplier to check the number (if indicated somewhere).

    Leave a comment:


  • redneckvtek
    replied
    Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post

    When I contacted PSI (Performance Shock, Inc) to get a price on revalving the Econoline Bilstein rears they quoted me $200 per shock (and 5 to 7 weeks). Based on their numbers I determined the Group N Bilsteins were actually a good price @ $271 each and I had them in 10 days from the UK. Plus I have a feeling they can still be rebuilt down the road if necessary. PSI was the only firm that responded to my inquiry (out of the five I contacted).

    What did RESuspension want to revalve each shock?

    Did you get a reply from Eric Heinrich about his inverted J-Stock rear Bilsteins he has for sale?


    RE Suspension wanted $75 each, for a total shock price of $175. Once they received the shocks, they became aware they were physically not able to be disassembled without destroying the body.


    Yes, I have gotten up with Eric, but we have not been able to speak by phone yet, although I hope to follow up today. Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    Originally posted by redneckvtek View Post
    The only reasonable, OTS option appears to be the GroupN shocks $280/each, and I was hoping to find something more budget friendly.
    When I contacted PSI (Performance Shock, Inc) to get a price on revalving the Econoline Bilstein rears they quoted me $200 per shock (and 5 to 7 weeks). Based on their numbers I determined the Group N Bilsteins were actually a good price @ $271 each and I had them in 10 days from the UK. Plus I have a feeling they can still be rebuilt down the road if necessary. PSI was the only firm that responded to my inquiry (out of the five I contacted).

    What did RESuspension want to revalve each shock?

    Did you get a reply from Eric Heinrich about his inverted J-Stock rear Bilsteins he has for sale?

    Leave a comment:

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