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  • Ant's m3
    replied
    Originally posted by redneckvtek View Post



    RE Suspension wanted $75 each, for a total shock price of $175. Once they received the shocks, they became aware they were physically not able to be disassembled without destroying the body.


    Yes, I have gotten up with Eric, but we have not been able to speak by phone yet, although I hope to follow up today. Thanks!
    So in short so far it is possible to send in B8 Front and rear dampers (i know non inverted rears but what are our choices) to RE Suspenion and get them revalved for these springs?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ant's m3
    replied
    Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post

    So true. As great as the E30 M3 is, you can't beat horsepower. I've experienced this first hand on the track. At PIR where I run I can keep up with the likes of a M2 in the corners, but once the straights arrive the M2 is gone. No way 192HP is going to stay with 365HP (or more). Granted I am out there to enjoy my car and not race anyone, but point-bys lap after lap gets old after a while.
    For sure! I've been lucky to have at least have a couple e30's (M20) , S2000's, BRZ's to keep me busy on some friendly cat & mouse. Also have a buddy with a 635csi euro that usaully comes out.

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    Originally posted by proctor750 View Post
    . . . the money is better spent on tires/brakes for the M2 than an 4-8k suspension on the M3.
    So true. As great as the E30 M3 is, you can't beat horsepower. I've experienced this first hand on the track. At PIR where I run I can keep up with the likes of a M2 in the corners, but once the straights arrive the M2 is gone. No way 192HP is going to stay with 365HP (or more). Granted I am out there to enjoy my car and not race anyone, but point-bys lap after lap gets old after a while.

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    replied
    Originally posted by irdave View Post
    I'm curious. Is the reason for dealing with basic shocks cost? Race class restrictions? I mean, damper technology has come a long way since the 80's. There's a lot more to it than just peak damping forces.

    I think there were/are restrictions in some classes where the damper can't be externally adjustable, but for everyone else... Is there too much adjustability? Just looking for plug and play?
    Both.

    The race car we run we built to spec E30 class rules to maximize an already dwindling set of potential series we can run it in. We will probably run Champ, WRL and AER until we find what fits best. In the event we want a sprint race we can make very minor changes to run with the Spec guys OR bmwclub racing. It's just a way to maximize all possible classes we could run in with 1 car.

    As for the M3 - it's not a "race" car and therefore doesn't need a race suspension. The J-stock's bring it up to a slightly more modern compliance without hacking up the strut housing which are not exactly the cheapest or easiest to find (other than the new set markus has for sale at the moment). Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge fan of MCS and my co-driver/builder has about an 8k MCS setup on his e30 with built S50. Some of the chassis reinforcements he fabricated are incredible on that car as well. So it's all about compromise.

    I also drive an M2 competition which I plan to track as much or more than the M3 and.. let's face it - the money is better spent on tires/brakes for the M2 than an 4-8k suspension on the M3..

    My .02 anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • irdave
    replied
    And to add something helpful, the Konis from GC that I'm riding on now are really pretty nice, even compared to the Ohlins and MCS, especially for the money. And they're adjustable.

    Leave a comment:


  • irdave
    replied
    Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post
    irdave - MCS is an expensive option for the M3. Basic non-coilover rear 2WR starts at $4,900. Then you need to add springs, torrington bearings, camber plates, etc . . . Probably more than the average M3 owner wants to spend. Of course having said that I have an MCS 2WR setup on my 1994 NSX and it is probably the best damper setup you can buy (IMO). Besides cost, another downside to the MCS suspension is that you need to send them your front struts for modification (i.e. similar to Ground Control where the spring perch is cut off) which of course does not allow you to return to stock should you wish.
    ...

    If you have the money to spend you can't go wrong with MCS.
    They're thinking about a 2WNR for the e30m3. They used my tii struts as the test bed to see if it was possible for the 2002- it worked great. That was easier because I had an extra set of struts laying around. I don't have an extra set of m3 struts to send in to wait the 6 weeks... Not going to go back to stock after something like this though. If I could find a set of struts- cut, chopped, tubes bent- for reasonable money, I'd send them in. They're so good! (If anyone does call, talk with Trevor or Wyatt. Tell them you heard it from Dave.)

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    irdave - MCS is an expensive option for the M3. Basic non-coilover rear 2WR starts at $4,900. Then you need to add springs, torrington bearings, camber plates, etc . . . Probably more than the average M3 owner wants to spend. Of course having said that I have an MCS 2WR setup on my 1994 NSX and it is probably the best damper setup you can buy (IMO). Besides cost, another downside to the MCS suspension is that you need to send them your front struts for modification (i.e. similar to Ground Control where the spring perch is cut off) which of course does not allow you to return to stock should you wish.

    Regarding race class restrictions I know that some PRO3 racers here in the Northwest run a MCS 2WNR on their E30s which is a little less expensive than the setup for the E30 M3. PRO3 rules gives the driver free allowance for their suspension setup with the exception that remote canisters are not allowed. I believe SPECe30 does not allow for adjustable dampers.

    If you have the money to spend you can't go wrong with MCS.

    Leave a comment:


  • irdave
    replied
    I'm curious. Is the reason for dealing with basic shocks cost? Race class restrictions? I mean, damper technology has come a long way since the 80's. There's a lot more to it than just peak damping forces.

    I was running Ohlins DFV dampers in my e46m3 wagon and MCS 2WNR in my tii. Both are easily revalvable to whatever you want, including progressive or digressive valving- so changing the characteristic of the damper completely. My current car (2002 shell with complete e30m3 running gear, including change of location of the strut top) has GC mounting hardware with adjustable Koni's (GC spec, so revalved- and they have a couple of options) with Eibach springs for the time being- I'm contemplating e36 front bits to make them a little easier to replace should the worst happen- and will probably end up back on MCS.

    I think there were/are restrictions in some classes where the damper can't be externally adjustable, but for everyone else... Is there too much adjustability? Just looking for plug and play?

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    replied
    Originally posted by kevnj View Post
    Proctor750, what spring rates and dampeners are you running in the rear? My thoughts have been if your running something close to J stock there wouldnít be enough force to compress the rear end that much.
    On the spec car it's the official ground control conversion kit. Can't remember rates from the top of my head but indeed they are much stiffer and thankfully so as they have drastically improved tire wear albeit they aren't really any faster than the old setup. They are also a linear coil not progressive like the hr races before it.
    I'll try to take a photo of before/after with the ziptie at the champ race at NCM (we get all 4 on turn 1/2 curbing).

    The M3 has full Jstock now.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevnj
    replied
    Proctor750, what spring rates and dampeners are you running in the rear? My thoughts have been if your running something close to J stock there wouldnít be enough force to compress the rear end that much.

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    replied
    Originally posted by kevnj View Post
    ĎS


    Check these rear shock mounts out from Ground Control. They are designed to allow a longer shock like an E36 to be used on an E30.

    https://groundcontrolstore.com/produ...ck-mounts-pair

    Currently, Iím using Ground Controlís Coilover Spec E30 kit with Bilstein Sport dampeners. Looking to increase spring rates to match J Stock. For the rear, I want to use E36 PSS9 dampeners with the shock mounts posted above. Will be reaching out to Bilstein to see if the valving range can be within the Gruppe N spec. My buddy has a pair of E36 PSS9ís lying around so I figured why not give this a try. I like the concept that I will be able to tune the rear shocks dampening.

    For the front dampeners I will most likely get the E30 Sports custom valves to 300/200 or the 300/300 mentioned in this thread. My track car is a Non M E30 with a 24v motor swap so Iím thinking a bit more rebound than the 175 maybe the ticket.
    We run those rear mounts in our spec car - we place a small zip tie on the shaft of the shock to see how much compression we are getting. It just about makes it to the bottom of the mount.

    Leave a comment:


  • proctor750
    commented on 's reply
    I was referring to the side effect of crimping, not the design purpose.

  • kevnj
    replied
    ĎS
    Originally posted by redneckvtek View Post


    Thanks. I sent Eric and email.

    The shocks are from Amazon, so back they go. Looking like the J-Stocks used if I can get them, or the Group N if not, are the way to complete this setup.

    Check these rear shock mounts out from Ground Control. They are designed to allow a longer shock like an E36 to be used on an E30.

    https://groundcontrolstore.com/produ...ck-mounts-pair

    Currently, Iím using Ground Controlís Coilover Spec E30 kit with Bilstein Sport dampeners. Looking to increase spring rates to match J Stock. For the rear, I want to use E36 PSS9 dampeners with the shock mounts posted above. Will be reaching out to Bilstein to see if the valving range can be within the Gruppe N spec. My buddy has a pair of E36 PSS9ís lying around so I figured why not give this a try. I like the concept that I will be able to tune the rear shocks dampening.

    For the front dampeners I will most likely get the E30 Sports custom valves to 300/200 or the 300/300 mentioned in this thread. My track car is a Non M E30 with a 24v motor swap so Iím thinking a bit more rebound than the 175 maybe the ticket.

    Leave a comment:


  • redneckvtek
    replied
    Originally posted by proctor750 View Post

    Right that's what I'm getting at. Maybe I can browse some of the E van forums or something to find out. Or call bilstein (never have luck getting that kind of info directly from a supplier).

    I also wonder if the crimping genuinely makes them tamper proof or if the one particular company just didn't want to fool with it (or didn't have tooling to deal with it if crimped..)

    I do have a helpful contact at Bilstein. She says the van shocks started being crimped at the end of 2018. Any stock older than 6mos would be rebuildable.

    The way I understand it, the crimping is done by a machine once the guts are inserted into the body. To get the guts out again, the crimps need to be grinded out, thus destroying the body. I suppose if you could purchase a replacement body, the same guts could be re-inserted after reparing or revalving, but the new body would need to be crimped by an expensive machine, or need to be different to allow a snap ring retainer method.

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    For those interested, here is a picture of a crimped Bilstein. The Group N Motorsports shocks are not crimped.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Crimped Bilstein.JPG Views:	0 Size:	33.8 KB ID:	1279702

    Crimping was done to lower manufacturing costs, not to make them tamper proof.

    Leave a comment:

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