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Seek help: I have a 2.5l dry sump S14

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  • Seek help: I have a 2.5l dry sump S14

    I was planning on getting this rebuilt by VAC motorsports and putting it into a 2002, but the more research I do on the car it looks like it was owned by BMW Raceteams, and it might be better off going to someone who is doing a track build and/or is doing a DTM tribute car.

    When I called BMW North America, they said that a few of the part numbers were BMW-only, eg: saying they were just parts for their race teams.

    I'm looking into how to do engine block number, and verify any history that way.

    1) Does anyone know much about dry-sumps, and can recommend who can rebuild this back to BMW spec?
    2) Would anyone be interested in this engine, especially if the pedigree shows it was in-fact originally in one of their race team cars?

    Thanks - any help/criticism/hate/suggestions is welcome.

    - Jon

  • #2
    VAC is the only place I know of that offers a "ready to go" dry sump system for the S14. Honestly....I have been in our little subculture for quite a while....and I can only think of one member here who dry-sumped their S14. I'm sure there are a few others...but it definitely is not commonly done.

    I was under the impression that all the BMW factory racing cars...be it DTM or whatever...used wet sump lubrication systems. I could be wrong...but I think that was the case. I too would be interested in the history of the engine.

    And finally, probably nearly everyone here would be interested in the engine, but the number willing to pay what it is worth would be far, far less.....

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    • #3
      I'm interested to learn more, but I'm not buying! Would love if you could share photos/details...
      1988 DS
      1988 Lachs
      Bay Area M3 FB group

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ironhead View Post
        VAC is the only place I know of that offers a "ready to go" dry sump system for the S14. Honestly....I have been in our little subculture for quite a while....and I can only think of one member here who dry-sumped their S14. I'm sure there are a few others...but it definitely is not commonly done.

        I was under the impression that all the BMW factory racing cars...be it DTM or whatever...used wet sump lubrication systems. I could be wrong...but I think that was the case. I too would be interested in the history of the engine.

        And finally, probably nearly everyone here would be interested in the engine, but the number willing to pay what it is worth would be far, far less.....

        Ironhead : Yeah it's currently already a dry sump set-up, and we can track that it was a BMW Race team mechanic that owned it and bought it from BMW. The real question is how much is still stock vs. the rebuilds and modifications over the years.

        I'll need to research the Wet Sump systems as well. I had someone at CATuned and VAC mention that stock was dry, but, this is a little out of my wheelhouse so far.

        Konig - https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...5t?usp=sharing
        Mix of engine pics I have and the 2002 that it came with.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by areallygoodname View Post


          Ironhead
          I'll need to research the Wet Sump systems as well. I had someone at CATuned and VAC mention that stock was dry, but, this is a little out of my wheelhouse so far.

          Not sure I understand what you mean by "stock was dry"....?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ironhead View Post

            Not sure I understand what you mean by "stock was dry"....?
            Ironhead you said that you thought the stock race/dtm engines were wet sump, and someone from CAtuned and VAC told stock was dry sump. Either way, both are out of my wheelhouse as to knowing which was stock offered when the engines were shipped to the race teams.

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            • #7
              Post some pics.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ttw18 View Post
                Post some pics.
                ttw18

                Link to Google drive above: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...5t?usp=sharing

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by areallygoodname View Post
                  Ironhead you said that you thought the stock race/dtm engines were wet sump, and someone from CAtuned and VAC told stock was dry sump. Either way, both are out of my wheelhouse as to knowing which was stock offered when the engines were shipped to the race teams.
                  No...all versions of the E30M3 sold by BMW were wet sump. My only question is whether any of the factory racing cars were dry sumped....and I don't think any were....

                  Apologies if you already know this....but a "wet sump" engine has an oil pan beneath the engine in which the engine oil is stored...it is pumped from the oil pan, circulates in the engine...then returns to the pan.

                  A "dry sump" engine has only a very shallow oil pan to catch the oil, which is then "scavenged" and pumped to a separate oil tank.

                  The advantages of a dry sump include greater oil capacity, and most importantly are largely immune from the effects of "G" loading on track....which with a wet sump can starve the engine of oil. A dry sump system is superior in every way to a wet sump, except in terms of cost and complexity. But "superior" does not mean "necessary"....and it is arguable whether the S14 needs to be dry sumped for any racing use. The DTM style wet sump pan has been proven to be very effective at preventing oil starvation.

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                  • #10
                    Ironhead Great info, and makes sense across the board.

                    From what I've seen on the S14.net facebook group, and after calling VAC, CAtuned, and a few others - I think the best strategy might be to sell the engine as is to someone who actually wants to build a track worthy car with an S14. I have a fresh rebuild of a stock S14 that I can put in the 2002, and might be more weekend driver friendly.

                    Appreciate the insights you shared. I only had the sellers word to go on that it was dry-sump from the factory. Either way, I don't really need a track set up although the extra HP and track headers is tempting to figure out a way to use.

                    Thanks again!

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                    • #11
                      I would want to know what cams you have. That would give you a clue on how track oriented it really is. Cams with high duration (300 degrees plus) would suggest other internal changes. Also you can see if it is ‘shim under bucket’. A potential buyer is going to want to know this info anyways.

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                      • #12
                        M1 was dry sumped.as were the race engines M12 and M13.
                        Here is the group A M3 parts catalogue, perhaps you find some parts that are on your engine

                        http://www.realoem.com/bmw/de/select....A%2FDTM&prod=

                        What is the engine serial number stamped on the flat surface just above the starter motor?

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                        • #13
                          Hi
                          I would be interested in some photos of your engine to see how the dry sump was connected up.

                          E30 M3 1987
                          Mini Clubman GT
                          BMW E36 323 Msport
                          Toyota Corona
                          KTM 200EXC
                          Honda CB50 (1979)

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                          • #14
                            Dave @nz TE=Dave @nz;n1270481]Hi
                            I would be interested in some photos of your engine to see how the dry sump was connected up.[/QUOTE]

                            https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...nDJzJ4NleAnd5t

                            Those are the only pictures I have right now. I will try to do another set of photo's and a series of videos when I have the engine in my shop.


                            hardtailer THANK YOU. I didn't realize that realOEM had GA parts catalogue. I'll definitely be pulling some of the numbers and comparing them to what I see there.
                            Not sure - I won't be able to see the engine for a few weeks but there were a few part numbers in the photos I posted in the google drive link just above.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The cast-in part numbers in the photos don't mean much unfortunately as they're mostly the same between all the different power stages and evolutions of the S14 and as such are not used as/identical to part numbers.
                              The difference is in the machining of the heads for instance not the casting.

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