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S14 with 2.5 TMS kit - recently installed Evo airbox + AFM -- cold start hesitation

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  • S14 with 2.5 TMS kit - recently installed Evo airbox + AFM -- cold start hesitation

    Hi all,

    I have an e30 m3 with a TMS 2.5 kit installed. Engine runs great. Its got about 15k on it. The PO who did the work took it to an engine shop and its a clean, solid build. The other ancillary 2.5 bits on the car have not been replaced, so i am still running 2.3 exhaust manifold, 2.3 TB's, 2.3 AFM and 2.3 injectors. The Chip i presume is a TMS chip which comes with the kit.

    I recently upgraded the AFM to the evo 2.5 AFM along with evo airbox kit that ECS and others sell. This includes the straightened intake horn as well as widened lower airbox + foam gasket (replacing the stock aluminum 90˚ manifold). Upon installing this and running the car, some of the immediate differences i noticed were lower idle. To me this seems like a healthy idle. The previous idle was 1000 - 1100rpm. The new, current idle with the new AFM is ~700 - 800rpm.

    However, cold start and running the engine and driving around when its cold has produced some really wonky results as compared to the stock AFM. I have stuttering, hesitation and overall bad power delivery in 1st and 2nd. Almost like the ECU is retarding the power delivery. Not sure if this is due to the car being cold, but i never had that before and it seems really odd. Very sporadic too. Then in 3rd, things seems to even out a bit with no hesitation except until i get up into the 4.5k range where things just sort of plateau with the same hesitation as before. If i go into 4th or 5th, things calm down but i'm not really able to crest 5.5k with this new setup.

    What might be causing these symptoms? Is the TMS chip programmed to accomodate the stock 2.3 AFM and should i get that re-tuned? Or do i need to pair this 2.5 AFM with the accompanying 2.5 injectors as well?

    Thanks in advance!
    -evan

  • #2
    The TMS chip (in the incarnation I am familiar with) was intended to be used with Sport Evo injectors...and I doubt they have changed it at all over the years. So if you are running 2.3 injectors, it could cause all sorts of problems.

    Be aware...the stock TMS chip has other issues. In my car it caused terrible low RPM pinging, and I know others have reported the same problem. Honestly, I didn't think anyone even used them anymore.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thats helpful feedback. I'll work on getting some 2.5 injectors.

      Could you recommend another chip i should look at?

      Comment


      • #4
        Well....I used to use a custom chip by Iigomotive....and I have heard them mentioned more recently over the years, but I don't know where you get them or if they are still available at all. Last I heard VAC could still do custom chips.

        I personally have not run an AFM (or a chip) since 2003....so it's definitely been a while.

        In this thread : https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s...-identity-help

        There is a PDF attached that lists the different chips sold by TMS, you might be able to get one more suited to your application. Sorry I can't be more help, but most owners have either returned their cars to stock, or like me are using some other form of EMS that does not require "chips"....so the market for them has definitely receded.
        Last edited by Ironhead; 05-31-2018, 01:06 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Great call on the injectors, Ironhead.

          Not sure if this email is still valid, but Luis is the man who most recently was making the iigomotiv S14 chips. Many on S14, including myself, utilize this chip. This is the last contact for him:
          s14chips@sbcglobal.net Email for Luis. Should still be valid and he should be able to offer options for chip selection to suit cams.

          90 Sterling 2.5L E30///M3 lifer
          97 Porsche Carrera S
          13 Audi S6
          SOLD 03 Audi RS6 daily
          GONE 88 E28///M5 project

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          • #6
            The Iigo chip is the way to go. Before I got mine I did a lot of research on different chips and the turner/Conforti chip produced the most power all on the very top end, but also seemed to be most commonly found on engines that had died due to detonation. That is Luis's email, sometimes it takes him a bit to get back to you. Bigger injectors might also help.

            Will
            '69 Datsun 2000 Roadster vintage race car (Street driven on a regular basis :taz
            '59 Alfa Romeo 101 Sprint (HUGE project :uhoh
            '88 M3

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ironhead View Post
              Well....I used to use a custom chip by Iigomotive....and I have heard them mentioned more recently over the years, but I don't know where you get them or if they are still available at all. Last I heard VAC could still do custom chips.

              I personally have not run an AFM (or a chip) since 2003....so it's definitely been a while.

              In this thread : https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s...-identity-help

              There is a PDF attached that lists the different chips sold by TMS, you might be able to get one more suited to your application. Sorry I can't be more help, but most owners have either returned their cars to stock, or like me are using some other form of EMS that does not require "chips"....so the market for them has definitely receded.
              Thanks for this. I want to keep my car mostly stock, but the 2.5 bore was done to the engine by the PO and before i owned it. I intend to keep the car stock as possible but i have to work within the constrains of the 2.5 so i'm just trying to get that to run as best as I can. So i'm kind of stuck with running the AFM. I really don't have any performance objectives with the car. I don't believe the engine was built using any special cams either, just stock. As for the chip, i'll look into these other options, either another TMS one or a custom one from the guy who was mentioned.

              As for injectors, i'm pinging a guy on the Parts board who has a set of 4x 2.5 evo injectors. I'm hoping that bigger injectors will quell it for now.

              Do you think there are any downsides to running with this 2.5 AFM?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ebox86 View Post

                Do you think there are any downsides to running with this 2.5 AFM?
                No...none at all. You just have to make sure you are running all the correct hardware your chip was designed to use. In other words...you don't want to run a 2.5 AFM if your chip is tuned for the 2.3 part.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So i pulled my ECU yesterday and found which chip i'm running. See Attached pics.

                  I believe the 'bonneville Motor Werks' branding is just a Jim Conforti/Turner rebrand from what other threads are saying. This is the product page for the chip i believe this one to be, although their chip packaging seems to have changed over the years:

                  https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-4...formance-chip/

                  Lists '2.3 intake' in the description, which takes the mystery out of my cold start hesitation in running the 2.5 AFM. I'll probably hold off on the injectors at the moment and just try and find a tune that works with my new setup.

                  I'll reach out to Luis with the email above and see if i can get ahold of him for a custom tune.

                  thanks again

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ebox86 View Post
                    So i pulled my ECU yesterday and found which chip i'm running. See Attached pics.

                    I believe the 'bonneville Motor Werks' branding is just a Jim Conforti/Turner rebrand from what other threads are saying. This is the product page for the chip i believe this one to be, although their chip packaging seems to have changed over the years:

                    https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-4...formance-chip/

                    Lists '2.3 intake' in the description, which takes the mystery out of my cold start hesitation in running the 2.5 AFM. I'll probably hold off on the injectors at the moment and just try and find a tune that works with my new setup.

                    I'll reach out to Luis with the email above and see if i can get ahold of him for a custom tune.

                    thanks again
                    That is an older Conforti Chip, brings back some memories! You are going down the right path, get Luis to assist and you will be good.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'd suggest doing the "package" correctly. You already have the most expensive parts...
                      Use the 2.5L AFM
                      Use the correct 2.5L Injectors
                      Get a proper chip for the 2.5L AFM/Injectors/Stock cams

                      For no other reason than it is all designed to work together. Why "make it work" with an assemblage of parts?
                      Chris L.

                      Spray paint and tire shine doesn't equate to a "restoration!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by UNHCLL View Post
                        I'd suggest doing the "package" correctly. You already have the most expensive parts...
                        Use the 2.5L AFM
                        Use the correct 2.5L Injectors
                        Get a proper chip for the 2.5L AFM/Injectors/Stock cams

                        For no other reason than it is all designed to work together. Why "make it work" with an assemblage of parts?
                        Yea i agree with you, and i have a lead on a set of 2.5 injectors in the FS parts forum. This is the preferred path i'd like to go down. However, i'm not sure what a 'proper' chip is, other than these custom ones that have to be tuned per the setup. Are you suggesting a chip from an evo or copy of the stock evo chip? Because that sounds ideal.

                        Also, did the 2.5 ship from the factory with the same cams as the 2.3? If so, thats great for me, i don't have to find/buy/install cams and the only big piece i'm missing from this puzzle are the injectors and the accompanying chip.

                        -evan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ebox86 View Post

                          Yea i agree with you, and i have a lead on a set of 2.5 injectors in the FS parts forum. This is the preferred path i'd like to go down. However, i'm not sure what a 'proper' chip is, other than these custom ones that have to be tuned per the setup.

                          .

                          -evan
                          My motor is pretty similar to what was suggested, 2.5 crank, forged pistons, evo cams, 2.5 AFM, 2.5 injectors. I also had Luis, make me a "IIGO" chip. He sent me the "base" chip, I ran the car on the dyno and sent the results to him, at which point he sent me back a new PROM based in the dyno results. I am totally happy with the chip and service from Luis. I believe, and have read that there are other chips that will yield more power, but Luis' chip is a nice compromise between power and dependability for a street car.

                          Don

                          Don
                          1973 - 2002
                          1988 - iX
                          1988 - M3

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                          • #14
                            You should hear from Luis, no problem. The email is valid. I was in touch with him earlier this year. I ran the TMS and VAC chips. Both had detonation for me. Changed to IIGO which is adjustable and is much better. Luis will get your info and dial in a chip for you. Good Luck!
                            88M3 henna


                            73T100C
                            97 540\6-Gone
                            2008 MINI Clubman S

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