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Asahi Kiko Engine Back in the Car- Ready for Portland & Monterey

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ironhead View Post
    Vintage car racing has become so popular, the cars with genuine race history have become extremely valuable. I know with the Monterey Historics at least, the car absolutely has to have genuine race history from back in the day to participate, correct? I wish I could have foreseen this, as it wasn't that long ago that vintage racing cars from the '70s and '80s had very little value. I could have afforded one at that time, now no way in hell. I remember reading that the former David Hobbs BMW 320i turbo (a very iconic late '70s IMSA racecar) sold several years ago for more than a half million dollars. And it wasn't restored or anything....just in slightly rough "time capsule" condition.

    Of course....my first choice would be a Porsche 935, but so far out of my league....not just to buy....but to keep running it I did own one.

    That depends. ;-)

    The race organizations walk a line between having full fields and a declining number of 'vintage' cars available. To keep their events full of cars and the stands full of people they have done 2 things- they have begun to allow cars without history race (supposedly as long as they are 'period correct'), and they have added classes for newer cars.

    As Will pointed out, the 'period correct' standard is variously upheld by the different race organizations, so you end up with 2 liter Porsches with 3.2 liter motors, modern brakes, carbon fiber bodywork, etc. Maybe you remember that big pile-up of big block cars at Road America about 13 years ago. The 1969 Corvette on pole in that race had a lap time that would have put it on the 2nd row of the 1969 Can-Am race. Not very 'period correct.'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRi...&frags=pl%2Cwn

    Another problem mixing these copy-cat cars with the historic cars is that the drivers of the copy-cat cars often don't care if they wreck your valuable historic car. They are on track with a modded up car often because they just want to win. They see vintage racing as easy pickings with drivers that are, perhaps, less skilled and more cautious.

    As an example, about 5 years ago Andrew Cannon had is ex-Vasick Pollak, ex Le Mans CSL at Monterey. He was gridded next to a clapped out Mustang with no history, that was poorly prepared, heavily modernized, and driven by an idiot. When the green flag dropped the Mustang nailed the throttle on cold tires, turn sideways and pushed Andrew's CSL into the jersey barrier. It took 2 years to repair and A LOT of $$$$. If it had been a car of lessor value and historic significance, I don't think anyone would have bothered to fix it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tpG...&frags=pl%2Cwn

    Monterey tries to screen cars and drivers to maintain the quality of the show. SVRA has their Gold Medallion program to try and encourage keeping the cars really period correct. Every time I race Luigi I worry. At some point we may find that the real cars all stay home because the reward doesn't justify the risk.
    1976 Luigi BMW CSL
    1991 Asahi Kiko E30 M3
    1970 Koepchen 2002
    1968 Hyde Park 2002TA
    1965 TiSA #193
    1960 700 Vintage Racer
    1965 1800Ti Vintage Racer
    1971 NSU 1200 TTS
    www.msportvintage.com

    Comment


    • #17
      Dang - would really love to see the M3 and CSL at PIR but I'll be doing the Monte Shelton NW Classic Rally (and Tour). Hopefully you'll be running in next year's Historics.
      1990 M3

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      • #18
        Originally posted by SteveWalker View Post
        As an example, about 5 years ago Andrew Cannon had is ex-Vasick Pollak, ex Le Mans CSL at Monterey. He was gridded next to a clapped out Mustang with no history, that was poorly prepared, heavily modernized, and driven by an idiot. When the green flag dropped the Mustang nailed the throttle on cold tires, turn sideways and pushed Andrew's CSL into the jersey barrier. It took 2 years to repair and A LOT of $$$$. If it had been a car of lessor value and historic significance, I don't think anyone would have bothered to fix it.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tpG...&frags=pl%2Cwn
        I would be livid. Whatís the recourse for the car thatís hit by another driver in this scenario? Iíd guess the cars are insured? Is the Mustang driver responsible?
        1988 Lachs - sold
        1988 DS - sold
        Bay Area M3 FB group

        Comment


        • Konig
          Konig commented
          Editing a comment
          I lose my punctuation posting from my phone... pretend there are some apostrophes in there

      • #19
        Also, I just watched that pileup from the 2005 race. Ií'm speechless. The value of cars completely annihilated in one accident is unbelievable, what was the aftermath?
        1988 Lachs - sold
        1988 DS - sold
        Bay Area M3 FB group

        Comment


        • #20
          Originally posted by Konig View Post

          I would be livid. Whatís the recourse for the car thatís hit by another driver in this scenario? Iíd guess the cars are insured? Is the Mustang driver responsible?

          I can only speak regarding my Haggerty policy. Insurance coverage stops when you go on-track and picks up when you come off. I think most coverage is the same. The cost to insure while competing would be prohibitive.

          I hit a Sebring veteran MG a few years ago with my 1800. It was totally my fault and I wrote a check to the owner for the repair, but I don't think that is the norm. The more aggressive drivers who cause 80% of the problems also seem to rationalize their responsibility away.

          There is supposed to be a punishment/policing system that is subscribed to by all the sanctioning bodies (SVRA, HMSA, SOVREN, HSR, etc.) where they award penalty points and notify each other of problem drivers, but I am not sure how diligent they are in this. I think only the most serious cases ever get reported.

          The main outcome from the Road America crash was that some of the sanctioning bodies began to crack down on over prepared cars and modern mechanicals. Several of them reserve the right to pull rocker covers to check valve trains, for instance. But practically not much has been done.

          Last year HMSA, who provides the tech inspection for Monterey, said that all the Porsches would have to provide a letter from their engine builders stating that the engine in their car conforms with period rules or they wouldn't be allowed to compete this year. I may be cynical, but I bet no letters are forthcoming this year.
          1976 Luigi BMW CSL
          1991 Asahi Kiko E30 M3
          1970 Koepchen 2002
          1968 Hyde Park 2002TA
          1965 TiSA #193
          1960 700 Vintage Racer
          1965 1800Ti Vintage Racer
          1971 NSU 1200 TTS
          www.msportvintage.com

          Comment


          • #21
            Originally posted by SteveWalker View Post


            That depends. ;-)

            The race organizations walk a line between having full fields and a declining number of 'vintage' cars available. To keep their events full of cars and the stands full of people they have done 2 things- they have begun to allow cars without history race (supposedly as long as they are 'period correct'), and they have added classes for newer cars.

            As Will pointed out, the 'period correct' standard is variously upheld by the different race organizations, so you end up with 2 liter Porsches with 3.2 liter motors, modern brakes, carbon fiber bodywork, etc. Maybe you remember that big pile-up of big block cars at Road America about 13 years ago. The 1969 Corvette on pole in that race had a lap time that would have put it on the 2nd row of the 1969 Can-Am race. Not very 'period correct.'

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRi...&frags=pl%2Cwn

            Another problem mixing these copy-cat cars with the historic cars is that the drivers of the copy-cat cars often don't care if they wreck your valuable historic car. They are on track with a modded up car often because they just want to win. They see vintage racing as easy pickings with drivers that are, perhaps, less skilled and more cautious.

            As an example, about 5 years ago Andrew Cannon had is ex-Vasick Pollak, ex Le Mans CSL at Monterey. He was gridded next to a clapped out Mustang with no history, that was poorly prepared, heavily modernized, and driven by an idiot. When the green flag dropped the Mustang nailed the throttle on cold tires, turn sideways and pushed Andrew's CSL into the jersey barrier. It took 2 years to repair and A LOT of $$$$. If it had been a car of lessor value and historic significance, I don't think anyone would have bothered to fix it.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tpG...&frags=pl%2Cwn

            Monterey tries to screen cars and drivers to maintain the quality of the show. SVRA has their Gold Medallion program to try and encourage keeping the cars really period correct. Every time I race Luigi I worry. At some point we may find that the real cars all stay home because the reward doesn't justify the risk.

            These definitely are very real dilemnas....

            In the past I had always assumed that historic racing was really more of a parade, but I have watched enough in car videos recently to realize that is not the case. Competitive spirit takes over, and many of the entrants are racing to win, which is kind of lame, since the cars are ridiculously imbalanced in a competitive sense. Watch some of the in-cockpit videos of Bruce Canepa in his 935 at Monterey, and try to tell me he is taking it easy. He isn't, but it is ridiculous that he and others like him find it meaningful to "beat" many cars that competitively speaking are not even on the same planet to what he is driving. I imagine some of the guys are so crazy rich that they are not worried about bending their cars, even very valuable collector cars.

            I know Ferrari 250 GTOs, a $30-50 million dollar car, have showed up to race at Monterey. Not sure if they still do, but I cannot even imagine the balls it takes to go out and do hot laps, among various drivers of different skills and motivations, in a car as valuable as that.

            Comment


            • #22
              By the way, Jim had the car over to VRM this past week and had it on their dyno to break it in just a bit before Portland race weekend.

              He did a couple of power runs and the car put out 253 HP at the rear wheels.

              Not too shabby.
              1976 Luigi BMW CSL
              1991 Asahi Kiko E30 M3
              1970 Koepchen 2002
              1968 Hyde Park 2002TA
              1965 TiSA #193
              1960 700 Vintage Racer
              1965 1800Ti Vintage Racer
              1971 NSU 1200 TTS
              www.msportvintage.com

              Comment


              • #23
                Originally posted by Ironhead View Post


                These definitely are very real dilemnas....

                In the past I had always assumed that historic racing was really more of a parade, but I have watched enough in car videos recently to realize that is not the case. Competitive spirit takes over, and many of the entrants are racing to win, which is kind of lame, since the cars are ridiculously imbalanced in a competitive sense. Watch some of the in-cockpit videos of Bruce Canepa in his 935 at Monterey, and try to tell me he is taking it easy. He isn't, but it is ridiculous that he and others like him find it meaningful to "beat" many cars that competitively speaking are not even on the same planet to what he is driving. I imagine some of the guys are so crazy rich that they are not worried about bending their cars, even very valuable collector cars.

                I know Ferrari 250 GTOs, a $30-50 million dollar car, have showed up to race at Monterey. Not sure if they still do, but I cannot even imagine the balls it takes to go out and do hot laps, among various drivers of different skills and motivations, in a car as valuable as that.

                that 250gto races every year #20 but as of 2 years ago it is joined by another 250gto #173 lol. these rich guys don't fuck around either









                95' Avus Blue M3

                06' Black Cayman S

                07' Raven Black Escalade

                Member of the Amber Corner Club

                Comment


                • #24
                  Steve,
                  I hope your hand is feeling better. I was really hoping to see you out on track, but as it happened, I only saw one warm up session and one race for the whole weekend. My car was not being cooperative and pretty much ate all my time. Your car looks awesome, I hope I can see it run in the future.

                  Will
                  '69 Datsun 2000 Roadster vintage race car (Street driven on a regular basis :taz
                  '59 Alfa Romeo 101 Sprint (HUGE project :uhoh
                  '88 M3

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    I was sorry to see both of your cars make early exits in the afternoon races.
                    1988 Lachs - sold
                    1988 DS - sold
                    Bay Area M3 FB group

                    Comment

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