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  • Lightweight EVO Flywheel - Opinions

    Looking down the road a bit when I need to replace my clutch. Is it worth while to replace my stock flywheel with the EVO unit? Is the lighter weight really noticeable? For the record my car is a 50/50 street car and track car. Stock HP.

    What clutch disk works well with the EVO FW? I am assuming the Sachs OEM clutch kit is fine. Is there reason to consider the Sachs Performance Clutch kit?

    Thanks in advance.

    Mark
    1990 M3

  • #2
    The lightweight flywheel is one of the top 3 most significant performance improvements one can make to an E30M3 drivetrain.
    The holy trinity of top bang for your buck, almost no downside modifications for an E30M3 are:
    1) Lightweight Flywheel
    2) Replace the AFM with some version of Alpha N
    3) Replace 4.10 diff with a 4.27 or 4.45
    Any one of those is a very noticeable change. The combination of any 2 or 3 of them is a game changer to an otherwise stock E30M3.

    The factory Evo flywheel is around 12lbs if memory serves me right. It is a good move and noticeable improvement. I personally think even lighter is better.
    They used to be able to machine a stock S14 flywheel down just under the Evo part. I think I have one that Metric Mechanic got down to just under 11 lbs, and I have another one that Jason Miller at Miller's Mule Machine got down around that or under (but that one was for a smaller 215mm clutch, so it let him whittle away more of it). I dont know if Metric Mechanic is still doing it. Back in they day I think they did it for only $100. It was a screaming deal.

    I have 8Lb aluminum flywheels in my street M3 and my S14 powered Cabrio with no regret.
    The race cars have even slightly lighter ones.

    As for the clutch, unless you are going racing I'd suggest the tried and true Sachs HD (I think the last 3 numbers in the part number are 618).
    The stock S14 is a bit "over clutched" at 228mm so any of the good quality name brand clutches are going to work, the Sachs HD, Clutchmasters 300 series, etc.
    Dont spend too much time dwelling on the clutch. Many many track miles and club races have been done on the Sachs 618 HD clutch in S14s.

    Hope thats a bit helpful. There are other more extreme flywheels and clutches, but for the description you gave, there is a very well worn path to walk down.
    jimmy p.
    87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
    88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
    88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
    92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
    98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
    04 Ford F350 - V10

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post
      The lightweight flywheel is one of the top 3 most significant performance improvements one can make to an E30M3 drivetrain.
      The holy trinity of top bang for your buck, almost no downside modifications for an E30M3 are:
      1) Lightweight Flywheel
      2) Replace the AFM with some version of Alpha N
      3) Replace 4.10 diff with a 4.27 or 4.45
      Any one of those is a very noticeable change. The combination of any 2 or 3 of them is a game changer to an otherwise stock E30M3.

      The factory Evo flywheel is around 12lbs if memory serves me right. It is a good move and noticeable improvement. I personally think even lighter is better.
      They used to be able to machine a stock S14 flywheel down just under the Evo part. I think I have one that Metric Mechanic got down to just under 11 lbs, and I have another one that Jason Miller at Miller's Mule Machine got down around that or under (but that one was for a smaller 215mm clutch, so it let him whittle away more of it). I dont know if Metric Mechanic is still doing it. Back in they day I think they did it for only $100. It was a screaming deal.

      I have 8Lb aluminum flywheels in my street M3 and my S14 powered Cabrio with no regret.
      The race cars have even slightly lighter ones.

      As for the clutch, unless you are going racing I'd suggest the tried and true Sachs HD (I think the last 3 numbers in the part number are 618).
      The stock S14 is a bit "over clutched" at 228mm so any of the good quality name brand clutches are going to work, the Sachs HD, Clutchmasters 300 series, etc.
      Dont spend too much time dwelling on the clutch. Many many track miles and club races have been done on the Sachs 618 HD clutch in S14s.

      Hope thats a bit helpful. There are other more extreme flywheels and clutches, but for the description you gave, there is a very well worn path to walk down.


      Which Alpha N do you recommend, jimmy p ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Crank View Post
        Which Alpha N do you recommend, jimmy p ?
        While I dont personally own one myself, it seems to be the current easy button is MAXX. Its got a huge knowledge base in the S14 community, I think its part owned by John over at S14Power.
        I have very old school "chip AN" in my street cars (very restrictive and not optimal) and stand alone in the race cars (which is a much bigger commitment)

        From what I have seen and read over the years the MAXX system seems to be the Goldilocks zone for 90% of the S14 users out there.
        jimmy p.
        87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
        88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
        88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
        92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
        98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
        04 Ford F350 - V10

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post

          While I dont personally own one myself, it seems to be the current easy button is MAXX. Its got a huge knowledge base in the S14 community, I think its part owned by John over at S14Power.
          I have very old school "chip AN" in my street cars (very restrictive and not optimal) and stand alone in the race cars (which is a much bigger commitment)

          From what I have seen and read over the years the MAXX system seems to be the Goldilocks zone for 90% of the S14 users out there.
          Is there a way to put an Alpha N in the car that does not require modification of factory wiring? I am looking for plug n play to the max.

          Comment


          • #6
            I dont know enough about MAXX to know if it requires altering any wiring. I believe its intended to work with all the factory wiring and sensors, but someone else will have to chime in on that.
            The old Conforti-Cyntex / Racing Dynamics version that was chip based did not require any modification of anything, but as I posted above, its way more antiquated and way less flexible than MAXX. I own two of those setups. They work, but I know the MAXX version is way superior.
            jimmy p.
            87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
            88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
            88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
            92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
            98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
            04 Ford F350 - V10

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Crank View Post

              Is there a way to put an Alpha N in the car that does not require modification of factory wiring? I am looking for plug n play to the max.
              I've been thinking about this myself. I installed a MAXX system on my track car about 10 years ago and at the time I wasn't concerned with ever going back to stock. I'm now considering installing one on my street car, which is a pretty clean unmodified car, and I'd like to retain the option of going back to stock with as little evidence as possible that it was modified.

              From what I recall of the install, the changes that need to be made to the ECU harness are reversible. It's just popping out some pins on the harness and swapping in some new connections. The tricky part, which I haven't looked into thoroughly, is that the MAXX instructions require you to cut off the connector to the AFM and swap on their connector. There must be a way to construct an adapter by either finding the appropriate factory connector blank or perhaps butchering a non working AFM to use its connector.

              There was a thread a while back where someone mentioned that Don Fields had come up with an adapter so you would not have to cut this. This has been on my list of things to look into, if you find any info I'd be interested in hearing.


              ****

              Edit: I was just looking at the latest MAXX install instructions and it looks like they now sell an optional cross over adapter for the TPS, and I don't see any mention of cutting the AFM connector.
              https://maxx-automotive.com/ftp/alph...4_140600en.pdf
              It may be that the newer kits have a different connector for the AFM. I have an unopened MAXX kit sitting in my garage, I'll tale a look later today.
              Last edited by Mick; 04-18-2019, 05:26 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Crank View Post

                Is there a way to put an Alpha N in the car that does not require modification of factory wiring? I am looking for plug n play to the max.
                Yes - the MIller Performance Alpha-N conversion. Works with either the factory airbox or DTM carbon fiber types. This is not a piggy-back system, works directly with the factory (071) ECU. While I don't have this myself, I met a guy who has it on his 2.5 built S14 and loves it. Completely reversible, no harness cutting or splicing.

                https://www.millerperformancecars.co...-system-detail
                1990 M3

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mick View Post

                  I've been thinking about this myself. I installed a MAXX system on my track car about 10 years ago and at the time I wasn't concerned with ever going back to stock. I'm now considering installing one on my street car, which is a pretty clean unmodified car, and I'd like to retain the option of going back to stock with as little evidence as possible that it was modified.

                  From what I recall of the install, the changes that need to be made to the ECU harness are reversible. It's just popping out some pins on the harness and swapping in some new connections. The tricky part, which I haven't looked into thoroughly, is that the MAXX instructions require you to cut off the connector to the AFM and swap on their connector. There must be a way to construct an adapter by either finding the appropriate factory connector blank or perhaps butchering a non working AFM to use its connector.

                  There was a thread a while back where someone mentioned that Don Fields had come up with an adapter so you would not have to cut this. This has been on my list of things to look into, if you find any info I'd be interested in hearing.


                  ****

                  Edit: I was just looking at the latest MAXX install instructions and it looks like they now sell an optional cross over adapter for the TPS, and I don't see any mention of cutting the AFM connector.
                  https://maxx-automotive.com/ftp/alph...4_140600en.pdf
                  It may be that the newer kits have a different connector for the AFM. I have an unopened MAXX kit sitting in my garage, I'll tale a look later today.

                  I just took a look and it turns out that my MAXX kit came with the crossover TPS adapter, and the AFM connector doesn't require you to to cut the factory harness. I've had this kit sitting on a shelf for over a year and have been putting off installing it because I assumed, based on my previous experience, that I would have to cut my harness. I should have looked sooner.

                  The Miller Performance A/N does look more plug-and-play but it seems fewer people are running it. I guess if you're most interested in ease of install that might be the way to go.

                  ** Mark, sorry to hijack your flywheel thread. I agree with Jimmy's comments. One thing to keep in mind, as you might already know, is that anything much lighter than an EVO flywheel will chatter at idle. I don't remember which flywheel I have in my track car but it's lighter than an EVO and it makes a racket when my car is idling. I do run the factory clutch and have had no issues with it at all.
                  Last edited by Mick; 04-18-2019, 06:09 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post

                    Yes - the MIller Performance Alpha-N conversion. Works with either the factory airbox or DTM carbon fiber types. This is not a piggy-back system, works directly with the factory (071) ECU. While I don't have this myself, I met a guy who has it on his 2.5 built S14 and loves it. Completely reversible, no harness cutting or splicing.

                    https://www.millerperformancecars.co...-system-detail
                    Pain in the ass to tune, and doesn't have the ability to run closed loop WBO2. Doesn't have live tuning. Every time you make changes you have to stop and upload the changes. Like the SS MAF is. I've had ALL of them. Split Second with knobs and without, Link MAP, LENZ PnP, MAXX old and new, Autronic SMC, Link Extreme, etc etc.


                    The closed loop WBO2 is the game changer for this DIY solution.

                    If you have the older version without the AFM connector, just remove the pins from the AFM connector and remove the pins from the wires. Keep them and put them back on if you ever go back to stock.

                    T

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HANDBLT View Post
                      I've had ALL of them. Split Second with knobs and without, Link MAP, LENZ PnP, MAXX old and new, Autronic SMC, Link Extreme, etc etc.
                      Well I'm going to jack my own thread now as this is of interest to me (probably should start a new thread but what the hell, plus I got my answer on the flywheel - thanks guys!). So let's say you were starting from stock, just looking to upgrade the induction system for now (no cams, no 2.5, etc.) what solution would you go with?
                      1990 M3

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Evo flywheel is a worthwhile upgrade if they're not TOO expensive these days. I recommend the OE Sachs clutch kit, I found the performance once unnecessarily heavy.

                        If you want to save some dough, consider modifying a stock flywheel. Here's a post I wrote about it, it worked out well in the end. You will need the shorter flywheel bolts if you remove material from that area.
                        https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s...22#post1234722
                        1988 Lachs - sold
                        1988 DS - sold
                        Bay Area M3 FB group

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So it sounds like MAXX kits come with an adapter so that you do NOT Have to cut into the factory wiring... ? That sounds good.

                          I was hoping that in this day and age with all the tech that there would be a simple way to install and tune one.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post

                            Well I'm going to jack my own thread now as this is of interest to me (probably should start a new thread but what the hell, plus I got my answer on the flywheel - thanks guys!). So let's say you were starting from stock, just looking to upgrade the induction system for now (no cams, no 2.5, etc.) what solution would you go with?
                            MAXX. Period. /thread

                            T

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Best vendor to buy MAXX from...?

                              Comment

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