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  • The 2.7L thread

    I haven't seen a thread with all the guys with 2.7's so let's get one going. Mine is still in purgatory waiting on pistons to come from the motherland, but it will be done this summer sometime (Mario is tuning it on an engine dyno). The ultimate goal of this car will be the Alpina DTM Michelin #22 car but still street legal (we don't have ANY type of inspections here so I can literally do anything).....

    Here are my specs:


    -Link Extreme ECU with custom harness built by Neel at APEX
    -Harness is MilSpec-ish with dual knock and 8 injector setup
    -Marc Norris COP setup with Toyota smart COP's
    -AIM (MXL2 or MXG dash, CAN bus connected, haven't decided yet)
    -2.7L rotating assembly from John with block plate
    -12.3:1 CR
    -schrick oversized race valves
    -30mm head, Shim under, schtick race springs and buckets
    -BMW MS copy 312/292 cams
    -stock cam gears slotted
    -50mm CF 8 injector airbox with panel filter housing
    -50mm TB's from S38B38 euro
    -Bosch dual cone EV14 injectors 2* angle in the TB's
    -Bosch single cone EV14 stand off injectors in the airbox
    -50/50 BMW OEM header coated
    -50/50 super sprint race center with dual 3"x18" resonators installed reversed ( they are glass packs and sound wicked this way)
    -EWP

    I am going to have the cams timed for midrange and only rev to 8000ish. Not looking for dyno queen, its a track car that I am going to track until it doesn't make sense.

    Let here what you have and lets update with dyno plots and all other relevant information to make it the go to 2.7 thread. I will add part numbers to all the items above when I have time. I'll document the EWP setup too. I bought it complete so I need make notes of all the parts that came with it.

    Scope creep doesn't even begin to tell this story. I bought Steve Dinan's old race motor in pieces and started a simple 2.5 build, and, well, yeah its like crack and I haven't even seen or heard or felt it yet. I cannot wait. It's killing me.

    T










    Last edited by HANDBLT; 06-01-2019, 04:23 AM.

  • #2
    Hi T,

    Waited for a thread like this

    Did a short presentation on the facebook page, but think that is better for look at my new wheels etc.

    My engine is quite similar yours, can do a round-up to compare.

    -Link Extreme ECU with custom harness built by my brother.
    -Dual knock,dual wbo2, 4 egt sensors. Only 4 injectors, x 550cc
    -Used stock rotor until now, worked perfect really, but now coil pack.
    -stock intruments, but the new canchecked display connected by canbus, same is my mk60 abs and wbo2 sensors.
    -2.7L rotating assembly from John, mahle motorsport pistons.
    -12:1 CR (supposed to be, the dtm head gasket is thicker than advertised) Theoretically at around 11.7:1 now.
    -schrick oversized race valves. 39mm + 32.5mm
    -30mm head, Shim under, schrick race springs and INA dlc buckets
    -BMW MS copy 312/292 cams
    -stock cam gears slotted
    -50mm CF injector airbox
    -50mm TB's from S38B38 euro
    -50/63 mm long primary rally header by M.A.T.S, the rally dude.
    -2 x 2.5" exhaust system.
    -EWP, homemade, with thermostat.
    -Homemade ethrottle system, jenvey actuator... to be tested.

    So thats basically my engine..
    Its going back into the car now,looking forward to test it again, but wont be on the road for a few weeks yet.

    Comment to your engine will only be to see how it responds on higher compression.. (at what gasket thickness have you planned it?
    Cool with the 8 injector setup, kind of regret I didn't go that way.
    Also I used the stock 50/50 header during first startup two years ago, it made 325nm and peak 315 hp @ 7500 rpm, but seemed to be a little restricted on top, maybe due to the header?
    The dual knock system I havent set up much yet, hoping to make it work...

    A little dyno teaser;
    A slow final pull. Did some testing on X pipe position and intake runner length.

    Comment


    • #3
      Nilsp,

      Can you convert to Drive by Wire throttle? If you can you shoud and map throttle angle against pedal demand so at you dip you can have 100% pedal demand and only the amount of throttle angle to achieve peak torque.
      Sport Evo No.47

      My Sport Evo Restoration

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by stevesingo View Post
        Nilsp,

        Can you convert to Drive by Wire throttle? If you can you shoud and map throttle angle against pedal demand so at you dip you can have 100% pedal demand and only the amount of throttle angle to achieve peak torque.
        Steve,

        yes, that was the plan!

        but it wasnt ready by the time I was in the dyno..

        its stronger in the dip area with less throttle, so we will make a map for this.

        Also did some testing on X-pipe position, end of primaries to start of X..

        Comment


        • #5
          S54 unit?

          Good data capture there!
          Sport Evo No.47

          My Sport Evo Restoration

          Comment


          • #6
            Planned using a s54 unit, but it didnt work like I planned, without messing to much.
            Found this unit, much smaller.. jenvey eta2.


            Steve, also found out using pipemax that these steoker things theoretically wants longer intake than stock too!

            So made up this to try in dyno..

            unfortunately they shaked loose, and I didnít want to fasten them to much first thing!
            but there was a difference, and we became confident they were positive, even though we cant really know when they really fell out (2 of them, many tries)

            Comment


            • #7
              Ow you have my mind digging for all options of enhancement. Ugh. One thing at a time dammit.

              T

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HANDBLT View Post
                Ow you have my mind digging for all options of enhancement. Ugh. One thing at a time dammit.

                T
                Youíre welcome
                no.. seriously.. you will be just fine with what you have planned!
                the rest is smaller details..

                Comment


                • #9
                  Since these engines are all likely running a stand alone EMS, what are you guys using for crank/cam triggers and sensors? Getting hardware to build a 2.7L seems relatively straight forward. Getting the EMS to run everything properly and reliably seems (to me) to be the more difficult part.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    APEX Race Parts TE=rewilfert;n1279970]Since these engines are all likely running a stand alone EMS, what are you guys using for crank/cam triggers and sensors? Getting hardware to build a 2.7L seems relatively straight forward. Getting the EMS to run everything properly and reliably seems (to me) to be the more difficult part.
                    [/QUOTE]

                    I am running the VAC crank and cam sensors, and a COP kit from Marc Norris for the valve cover. The TPS is the 6-pin 402 or 406 one that is plug and play. I had a milcpec custom harness built by Neel @ Apex. The engine is being built now at VSR and they are going to tune it on an engine dyno.

                    T

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rewilfert View Post
                      Since these engines are all likely running a stand alone EMS, what are you guys using for crank/cam triggers and sensors? Getting hardware to build a 2.7L seems relatively straight forward. Getting the EMS to run everything properly and reliably seems (to me) to be the more difficult part.
                      Its not that advanced really, not necessarily.

                      My brother makes a plug and play setup using the new maxxecu ecu. Just mentioned in another thread. -The vems..
                      This uses the stock flywheel trigger and all. Everything included to plug and play really, only limit is they dont like the stock low ohm injectors, and this doesnt support sequential injection without adding a camshaft trigger.
                      -S38 3.8 liter is nice to use for that, but its not a must have either!

                      On my 2.7 I used stock ignition system until now, no problems at all.

                      Tony.. how does that vac cam sensor look like?
                      Looking forward to see your engine running.
                      -ps.. the map I sent you is not used in car, only in dyno, and there might be a few changes, including the trigger position.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nilsp View Post

                        Its not that advanced really, not necessarily.

                        My brother makes a plug and play setup using the new maxxecu ecu. Just mentioned in another thread. -The vems..
                        This uses the stock flywheel trigger and all. Everything included to plug and play really, only limit is they dont like the stock low ohm injectors, and this doesnt support sequential injection without adding a camshaft trigger.
                        -S38 3.8 liter is nice to use for that, but its not a must have either!

                        On my 2.7 I used stock ignition system until now, no problems at all.

                        Tony.. how does that vac cam sensor look like?
                        Looking forward to see your engine running.
                        -ps.. the map I sent you is not used in car, only in dyno, and there might be a few changes, including the trigger position.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tony,

                          Could you post a picture of your COP kit from Marc Norris please.
                          Sport Evo No.47

                          My Sport Evo Restoration

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nilsp View Post

                            Steve,

                            yes, that was the plan!

                            but it wasnt ready by the time I was in the dyno..

                            its stronger in the dip area with less throttle, so we will make a map for this.

                            Also did some testing on X-pipe position, end of primaries to start of X..
                            What are you using for a crank trigger? Also, is that a normal V belt driving the alternator?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rewilfert View Post

                              What are you using for a crank trigger? Also, is that a normal V belt driving the alternator?
                              I'm using a stock crank trigger, but have a custom made flywheel with 60-2 pattern instead of the stock 116 count.
                              Yes, its a "flat belt" or serpentine you call it?
                              Pulleys from muzzi motorsport.. and a custom crank pulley for flat belt, but this only have a single belt. This pulley is custom made in australia, and of course with the damping.. that was essential to me.
                              I think muzzi has started making real crank pulleys now, not only the aluminium..
                              Im also having electric power steering, so only need one belt.
                              But to be honest, I`m 100%sure all the stock pulley stuff would work fine on a 2.7, because its not running that much rpm. And on my old 2.3 I have never been unlucky with any v-belt jumping off either, that was also running to 8000rpm+ A 2.7 in this form doesnt need to go past 8000 really.

                              Tony.. ok, looks just like the stock 3.8 cam trigger, perfect

                              Comment

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