Announcement

Collapse

Session time has been extended...

Instead of 30 minutes, you will be logged into s14.net for 1.5 hours of inactivity before being logged-out. Also instead of having only 30 minutes to edit a post, it has now been extended to 60 minutes.
See more
See less

Upgrades during COVID-19 and First Track Day of the Year

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Upgrades during COVID-19 and First Track Day of the Year

    I spent the better part of the COVID-19 shelter-in-place having some upgrades completed on my car. This started out as a project to fix a couple small leaks around the transmission and then thought “well as long as the transmission is out I might as well replace the flywheel and clutch and . . . well . . . you know how that goes.

    1) Replaced various transmission seals (i.e. Input, Output, Selector Shaft Seal)
    2) Replaced Rear Crankshaft Seal (11142249533)
    3) New BMW Motorsport lightweight flywheel (11221312519)
    4) SACHS Performance Clutch, PP and related parts (21212226854)
    5) Turner shifter rebuild kit (PBTSRKT5)
    6) AKG 80A Motor Mounts (GNMS14)
    7) BMW Transmission Mounts. (23711175732). These are the harder ones from the E28/E24 series. Unfortunately, AKG was not producing their matching 70G transmission mounts at the time I had the motor mounts installed.
    8) Driveshaft center support bearing (26121225071). Replaced this bearing since the driveshaft was out to work on the clutch.
    9) Supersprint Center Resonator (no CATS) (782223)
    10) Custom 4-point bolt-in roll bar
    11) 75mm wheel studs (TWH9950B62-20KT)
    12) Turner J-Stock suspension including springs, front TMS J-Stock revalved Bilsteins and revalved rear Bilstein Group N Motorsport dampers

    My first HPDE day this year finally took place with the Cascade Sports Car Club (6/19). I was very happy with the way everything turned out. I posted my best time ever at PIR (1:41.634). This is not an altogether fast time for an E30 M3 on this track, but I’ll take it for now. I was almost a second faster in my M3 than I was in my 1994 NSX (with more HP, BBK, MCS, etc) which surprised me. I know I have the potential for lower times as I was braking earlier than I need to and coming off the brakes later than I needed to. I was also in too high a gear coming out of a couple of corners (#1 and #7) so my exit speed was compromised. First track day of the year so the focus was getting back in the grove and learning how the car would handle with the J-Stock setup.



    Quick words about the TMS J-Stock setup. I now understand now why it was so popular back in the day. Combined with 22/19 sway bars and correctly valved dampers the car is very neutral and controllable. For me, this suspension setup is a no brainer, and as I am not a suspension engineer and don’t track the car enough to understand the finer points of dialing-in compression and rebound settings a K-I-S-S solution such as the TMS J-Stock setup satisfies my needs.

    I will also second (and third) comments from others about the benefits of the lightweight Motorsports flywheel. Really helped the engine get up to revs quicker as well as helping the heal / toe downshifts. The additional chatter from the lighter flywheel is somewhat annoying, but I’ll probably try a combination of 75W-140NS and D4 ATF in the transmission to quiet it down. If any of you have alternative suggestions I'd love to hear them.

    During the roll bar construction I asked my fabricator to tie the roll bar into both the rear shock mounts and the B-pillar seat belt mount. This had the feel of stiffening the chassis and (I think) helped the handling to a degree. Probably made for a better setup than your typical off-the-shelf 4-point bar.



    Not sure I can cite any material benefits from the stiffer engine and transmission mounts although I am sure they are there. Probably subtle enough to go unnoticed for a novice like myself. There is some additional NVH which I knew was coming, but since the car is my primary track car this year, I can live with it. Would not run them if the car was predominantly a street-oriented car however.

    My next HPDE day is 6/25 and I am anxious to try and improve on my lap times.





    Thanks for reading. Stay healthy and safe.

    Mark


    1990 M3

  • #2
    Awesome to hear about the results of your efforts. I bought the TMS J-stock springs when they became available again and that's on my list to do, along with sending out my old Bilsteins to get revalved to J-stock specs and a bunch of, "while you're in there" stuff.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for sharing, I love a good write-up! Glad that your off-season wrenching culminated in an improved experience behind the wheel.
      1989 Lachs
      1988 Lachs - sold
      1988 DS - sold
      Bay Area M3 FB group

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice! I have been doing much the same and have went the same direction with the J-Stocks, so appreciate the insight. Looking forward to getting out on the track at Donington next week. Although I think I'm going to go H&R Sports once track season is over - they are a little stiff for country road use and I really don't like how the fronts aren't captive. Very interested to see you were faster than your NSX - possibly feeling more confident in the M3?
        JUNGL3

        333i Sport - Alpina M52 3.3, E30 M3 5 Stud

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JCGus View Post
          Very interested to see you were faster than your NSX - possibly feeling more confident in the M3?
          That had crossed my mind. I think the mid-engine NSX platform lends itself towards more caution especially if you find yourself too hot mid-corner. Lifting oftentimes will snap the rear around. Pro drivers will quickly recognize this and make adjustments accordingly. Lesser drivers will find themselves looking at oncoming traffic. This typically doesn't happen with a front-engine car.

          Yes, I do feel more confident driving the M3 fast than I do the NSX.
          1990 M3

          Comment


          • #6
            Great post.
            All the upgrades you made were very well thought out and high return items.
            I'm not surprised at all you felt them and enjoyed good results.
            As you wrote, there was a reason that suspension was (and still is) so popular (along with being pretty fast).
            Cant wait to hear more.
            jimmy p.
            87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
            88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
            88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
            92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
            98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
            04 Ford F350 - V10

            Comment


            • #7
              Cool! Out using the m3 as the builders intended! Way to go!

              I was out last weekend at the track also, but the E36 M3 got the exercise. Hope to have the E30 M3 out this Friday.
              75 M2
              88 M3

              Comment


              • #8
                Lovely car. These cars with a relatively stock look with a cage and a drop look amazing. It's like you can feel how fun it is just by looking at it. How's PIR? I've never made it down there and would like to, but in my e36 m3 most likely over the e30. I've just done the ridge and pacific raceways, and haven't been out in two years unfortunately.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Westopher View Post
                  How's PIR?
                  PIR is a fun track. 1.977 miles. Some find it boring as it is almost flat with no elevation changes but there are enough challenging sections to keep you on your toes. You have two long straights, a double apex turn (#4 - hard to get right) and a fast chicane off the back straight (#10 and #11).

                  Here is a good analysis if you are interested:

                  https://www.raceronrails.com/track-w...onal-raceways/
                  1990 M3

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    SECOND TRACK DAY - SUSPENSION UPDATE:

                    I continue to be impressed with the TMS J-Stock setup. Had my second track day yesterday (6/25) and lowered my time by 1.74 seconds from my previous PB achieved last week (6/19). Weather might have contributed to the time as it was cool (65 degrees) and the track was fresh – first session of the day. The car felt great and the interesting thing was I didn’t feel like I was pushing when I dropped that time. It actually surprised me when I saw it.

                    The other interesting item to note was the lateral acceleration I achieved in several corners. Based on the software I was running on my iPhone I saw 1.10G turning left and 1.18G turning right in several corners. I didn’t think the E30 chassis was capable of these numbers without significant modification (beyond just springs, dampers and sway bars). Think DTM suspension.

                    For a non-adjustable suspension this is quite impressive (at least in my opinion). Anyone thinking of going coil overs for the track needs to seriously consider the J-Stock setup.


                    So much fun . . .

                    Thanks for reading.

                    Mark
                    1990 M3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What does your car weigh?
                      I love my J-Stock setup for the same reasons. Although, it was better when my car was heavier. (it was designed for "stock" weight cars after all) As I've lighten my car I'm finding it to be a bit too tightly sprung. It's especially noticeable in the braking zones of bumpy Northeast tracks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mick View Post
                        What does your car weigh?
                        I have not weighed it, but I'd guess it is close to whatever the OEM weight is (~2700lbs). I have not lightened the car other than removing the rear seat (to facilitate the roll bar) and added an OMP HTE-R seat.
                        1990 M3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Its a testament to how much time and effort Will Turner put into making that setup great. His countless laps in E30s, knowing the chassis so well and what it needed.
                          Some of the fastest guys in BMW CCA Club Racing ran that setup. The pointy end of any of the J Stock fields (which at that time was like Spec E30M3) all had it.
                          You almost had to have it.
                          He's obviously moved on to much bigger things, but Will's roots are deeply in E30s.
                          His old E30 325is SCCA ITS car was "the" ride to get around Lime Rock back when I was just starting out.
                          Last edited by jimmy p.; 06-26-2020, 04:01 AM.
                          jimmy p.
                          87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                          88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                          88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                          92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                          98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                          04 Ford F350 - V10

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            what tires were you running on? same as last year? tires and track surface are the major variables in steady state cornering forces.

                            just noticed in your winter work list the part number for the center bearing is just for the bearing. did you not replace the carrier and rubber mount?
                            75 M2
                            88 M3

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mlytle View Post
                              What tires were you running on?
                              Tire are Pirelli Trofeo R 225/50R15. Did not have any software last year to track lap times or G forces so I don't have a comparative.

                              Originally posted by mlytle View Post
                              Just noticed in your winter work list the part number for the center bearing is just for the bearing. did you not replace the carrier and rubber mount?
                              Carrier looked good (car has 63k miles). We just pressed in a new bearing. Assuming by rubber mount you mean the guibo? That was new about 2 years ago. What are your concerns about not replacing the carrier?

                              Thanks,

                              Mark
                              1990 M3

                              Comment


                              • mlytle
                                mlytle commented
                                Editing a comment
                                just that in all the CB's i have changed (multiple examples each of 2002, e30, e36, e46), the only part that i have ever found "worn out" was the carrier/rubber mount. i don't mean the quibo, i mean the rubber mount part of the carrier that the actual CB fits into. the rubber sags and dries up with age, and/or gets torn. rubber is not forever. i have not seen the actual bearing fail yet.

                                unlike the CB and carrier for 87/88 M3's, the CB and carrier for a 90 is dirt cheap. i would not have even considered just replacing the bearing alone.

                              • mwagner10702
                                mwagner10702 commented
                                Editing a comment
                                I don't recall the rubber looking ratty, but looks can be deceiving. I'll pick up a complete center carrier for when the driveshaft is out again. Any feedback on brands such as Febi vs. SKF vs. BMW OEM?

                              • mlytle
                                mlytle commented
                                Editing a comment
                                i have used all those brands...zero issues with any of them.
                            Working...
                            X