Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Suspension question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Just so you know, to switch to MCS you'll need to send in your strut tubes so they can cut them off and weld on new tubes as they're monotube struts, so no insert. I know they were working on getting a set. I had a set on my 2002tii, 2WNR, on the street. They were great. I was planning on getting some for my M2 as it uses the M3 suspension once I found an extra set of struts to send in. I've serviced several sets of the 2WNR, they're really elegant inside.

    I know I have an M2, not an M3, but my car utilizes everything under the shell of the M3, so all of my suspension is M3 (subframes, brakes, steering, suspension.) I'm currently on the GC kit with the single adjustable Koni's. I chose the softer, more street oriented valving, with, I think 450 / 600 for springs. My car weighs 2500 on the scales. I've found them to be very compliant and comfortable. Have you tried just opening the adjusters to allow some flow? (I know everyone screams underdamped is evil! but they actually work ok wide open, they're not underdamped at that point with soft springs, and if it gives a nice ride on the street then that's the right answer.) I think I might have a half a turn in from wide open and my wife rides in the car all the time.

    So, MCS is great. Wyatt and Jeremy are both great- give them a call.

    But what are your damper settings right now? And really, try opening them all the way up and see how it is- it's a useable setting on the street (provided the dampers aren't blown up or something totally different from the current offering.) Like I said, mine are either wide open or just have a turn from it. (Clockwise is all the way open.)
    Dave.
    76 M2

    Comment


    • #17
      The front dampers are wide open, set to full soft. The ride isn't terrible, but it does feel like it bottoms out often and over bumps i feel like i'm on a pogo stick.

      I spoke to Wyatt at MCS, we went through details and process and he recommended that I stick with 450/650 spring rate. He mentioned that the dampers will be custom valved to work with those spring rates and I'll find noticeable difference between the different settings on the damper. Starting to get excited like i did when I first bought the car. Car is getting adjustable end links, lower control arms and a new Stromung exhaust. Oh and I'm almost done refinishing my BBS RS rims

      I am currently running an IE front sway bar. At autocross I noticed that the car started to plow into corners. Around town the car feels planted but pushing it on an autocross course, I do not like how it behaves. I am trying to decide if I should go back to stock sway bar or purchase a rear sway bar to balance it out a bit. Any opinion on the matter? I know there are various kits, but would adding a rear sway bar make the car stiffer or will it help balance the car out? I appreciate the patience as I am a newbie to all things suspension.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by LopezM3 View Post
        I spoke to Wyatt at MCS, we went through details and process and he recommended that I stick with 450/650 spring rate.
        This configuration will have good road manners + work at the occasional AX. I would recommend going with Swift springs over whatever you have now. I replaced my Eibachs with Swifts on my NSX and there was a noticeable difference in ride (all other setting unchanged). Swift uses a different material in their springs which has quicker transient response resulting in a better ride especially over rougher surfaces. I'd really encourage you to consider Swift springs. If there is a downside it is that Swift manufactures their coilover springs in 2.5" or 60mm (I'd go 60mm in your case). This may require that you replace your camber plates with ones compatible with 60mm springs (worth it though).


        Originally posted by LopezM3 View Post
        Starting to get excited like i did when I first bought the car.
        I'd be excited too. You will love the new dampers.


        Originally posted by LopezM3 View Post
        I am currently running an IE front sway bar. At autocross I noticed that the car started to plow into corners. Around town the car feels planted but pushing it on an autocross course, I do not like how it behaves. I am trying to decide if I should go back to stock sway bar or purchase a rear sway bar to balance it out a bit. Any opinion on the matter? I know there are various kits, but would adding a rear sway bar make the car stiffer or will it help balance the car out? I appreciate the patience as I am a newbie to all things suspension.
        What you are experiencing is understeer (when the front wheels lose grip first). Likely you are braking late and entering the corner too fast. When you turn in the required grip level exceeds that available to the front tires and the car plows wide. Spring rates will have an effect on cornering since you transfer weight under braking towards the front of the car. Finally your sway bars, camber plates (how much negative camber you have dialed in) also have a part in all of this as do tire pressures. It's all a balancing act of getting all these components working in harmony with each other. One thing to note is a fast AX setup will be quite different than what works on the street. As you have experienced street driving is less aggressive than what you experience on the AX course. Your car will definitely behave differently.

        Did you mention this "plowing" to Wyatt? I'd talk to him about your desire to AX and have him advise you on a direction to go.
        1990 M3

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by irdave View Post
          Just so you know, to switch to MCS you'll need to send in your strut tubes so they can cut them off and weld on new tubes as they're monotube struts, so no insert.
          His struts are already modified so any additional modifications (cutting and welding) are not going to have any impact on future value. Besides once the OP has his MCS dampers installed he'll never go back to GC anyway. I'd feel differently if he had a set of unmodified struts as they are becoming increasingly expensive to purchase new (or used).

          1990 M3

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post

            This configuration will have good road manners + work at the occasional AX. I would recommend going with Swift springs over whatever you have now. I replaced my Eibachs with Swifts on my NSX and there was a noticeable difference in ride (all other setting unchanged). Swift uses a different material in their springs which has quicker transient response resulting in a better ride especially over rougher surfaces. I'd really encourage you to consider Swift springs. If there is a downside it is that Swift manufactures their coilover springs in 2.5" or 60mm (I'd go 60mm in your case). This may require that you replace your camber plates with ones compatible with 60mm springs (worth it though).




            I'd be excited too. You will love the new dampers.




            What you are experiencing is understeer (when the front wheels lose grip first). Likely you are braking late and entering the corner too fast. When you turn in the required grip level exceeds that available to the front tires and the car plows wide. Spring rates will have an effect on cornering since you transfer weight under braking towards the front of the car. Finally your sway bars, camber plates (how much negative camber you have dialed in) also have a part in all of this as do tire pressures. It's all a balancing act of getting all these components working in harmony with each other. One thing to note is a fast AX setup will be quite different than what works on the street. As you have experienced street driving is less aggressive than what you experience on the AX course. Your car will definitely behave differently.

            Did you mention this "plowing" to Wyatt? I'd talk to him about your desire to AX and have him advise you on a direction to go.
            I'll take a look at Swift. I assume you are talking about their Metric Coilover springs not their Sport Spring?

            When I mentioned to the shop that I wanted to go in the direction of MCS, he said I should consider makin the rear a true coilover. I had read that the rear is to weak to make the rear a true coilover. I briefly spoke about this with Wyatt and he mentioned the same thoughts. Am I going into deep into this rabbit hole? I'm sure there will be added cost to beef up the rear to make it a true coilover. Is it worth the extra expense?

            Thanks!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by LopezM3 View Post

              I'll take a look at Swift. I assume you are talking about their Metric Coilover springs not their Sport Spring?

              When I mentioned to the shop that I wanted to go in the direction of MCS, he said I should consider makin the rear a true coilover. I had read that the rear is to weak to make the rear a true coilover. I briefly spoke about this with Wyatt and he mentioned the same thoughts. Am I going into deep into this rabbit hole? I'm sure there will be added cost to beef up the rear to make it a true coilover. Is it worth the extra expense?

              Thanks!
              Metric coilover springs (60mm). Full coilover in the rear is unnecessary for anything less than a fully caged car. IMO it is not worth the extra expense.

              Make sure you talk to Wyatt about spring length and get his recommendation. If you plan on lowering the car below factory ride height (which I assume you are going to do) let him know what your target ride height is so he can suggest the correct length springs. On the front assembly you'll need a tender spring in addition to the main spring. The tender spring typically does not have a rate. It is just there to keep the main spring in place when the suspension is unweighted (i.e. on a lift). Wyatt can guide you in this area as well.
              1990 M3

              Comment


              • #22
                No offense BUT Coilovers in our cars simply SUCK! IM having a set of custom springs made with spring rates that will perform well on everyday roads and drop the car to the same height as I use to have on coilovers. They're not finished yet but will give feedback when done.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by pauliecarzz View Post
                  No offense BUT Coilovers in our cars simply SUCK! IM having a set of custom springs made with spring rates that will perform well on everyday roads and drop the car to the same height as I use to have on coilovers. They're not finished yet but will give feedback when done.
                  Not an entirely true statement. Bad coilovers suck because the spring rates and damper valving are not properly matched resulting in a less than ideal ride. In addition people usually lower their cars beyond the suspension's design capabilities without a corresponding change to the length of the damper (stroke being too long leaving the damper with very little operating length) and end up having the suspension riding on the damper's bump stop most of the time. A MacPherson strut is essentially a coilover. The largest difference being the coil spring does not fully extend over the damper.

                  Unless you are planning on using a shorter damper properly valved for the new spring rates your solution won't be much better than your typical coilover setup. Not sure how low you are planning to go, but you go too low your bump steer will also be impacted. What you are proposing "custom springs made with spring rates that will perform well on everyday roads and drop the car to the same height as I use to have on coilovers" simply cannot happen without significant re-engineering of the M3's front suspension.
                  1990 M3

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mwagner10702 View Post

                    Not an entirely true statement. Bad coilovers suck because the spring rates and damper valving are not properly matched resulting in a less than ideal ride. In addition people usually lower their cars beyond the suspension's design capabilities without a corresponding change to the length of the damper (stroke being too long leaving the damper with very little operating length) and end up having the suspension riding on the damper's bump stop most of the time. A MacPherson strut is essentially a coilover. The largest difference being the coil spring does not fully extend over the damper.

                    Unless you are planning on using a shorter damper properly valved for the new spring rates your solution won't be much better than your typical coilover setup. Not sure how low you are planning to go, but you go too low your bump steer will also be impacted. What you are proposing "custom springs made with spring rates that will perform well on everyday roads and drop the car to the same height as I use to have on coilovers" simply cannot happen without significant re-engineering of the M3's front suspension.
                    You are not wrong.. I tried my hardest to Like coilovers but threw in the towel... I Can't comment on the custom springs until I have them in and get a proper feel of the setup.
                    My coilovers had a spring rate of 400lbs up front and it just jarred through my spine.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by pauliecarzz View Post

                      You are not wrong.. I tried my hardest to Like coilovers but threw in the towel... I Can't comment on the custom springs until I have them in and get a proper feel of the setup.
                      My coilovers had a spring rate of 400lbs up front and it just jarred through my spine.
                      did you lower the car from the stock ride height? doesn't matter what system you buy or make, if you don't keep the M3's stock ride height, it FUBAR's everything. you can't lower the car without raising the pickup points. people do, but its wrong, and creates the problem you are trying to get rid of. shitty suspension dynamics.

                      I have a track only car, and I still keep mine at stock ride heights and rake, for this very reason. They designed it this way for a reason and everyone destroys it for vanity.

                      T

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X