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Air Plenum Fitting - Need Help

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  • Air Plenum Fitting - Need Help

    I am looking to install a carbon replica plenum (from John at s14power.com) and John's plenum does not come with the fitting circled in the picture below. I don't see this piece in any of the diagrams on realoem.com so I am assuming it is part of the actual plenum. Looking at my OEM plenum this piece is not made of the same material as the plenum, it appears to be a plastic of some sort.

    I am either looking for this part or a used / non-functional plenum I can take the part from. If you have alternative suggestions for this part I am open to exploring that option as well

    Thanks,
    Mark

    1990 M3

    Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your M3

  • #2
    It’s not plastic. It’s metal pressed into factory plenum. Not sure how to remove them without damage but it’s a common part to come loose, cause vacuum loss, and blow your motor. Point is, they should just come out with some method

    Comment


    • #3
      Mark, does the carbon plenum come with a provision for installing this component or will you have to cut into it?

      Comment


      • #4
        Mark:

        Are you still running the idle air control valve? If you are, you might consider removing it and doing without it. That would eliminate the need for this fitting. I eliminated it on my race car, and quite honestly, the car runs every bit as good without it. You may actually avoid a burned ECU if you run without it since it's always been suspected that a stuck air control valve could be the primary cause of burned / blown transistor's in the ECU. How many times have we heard of them in people's ECU's causing no-start ?
        Ron ///Man

        • '91 Gr-A Former CiBiEmme / Ravaglia - Sold
        • '90 M3 Faux EVOII Alpineweiss 36K Orig Owner - The Queen
        • '91 M3 Faux EVO III Brilliantrot Euro Driveline - The Rocket
        • '91 M3 Faux Gr-A Club Racer DM - The Alter EGO
        • '89 M3 M3T / ITR Club Racer
        • '94 Spec E36 - Eh....
        • '09 M3 - Tarmac Terrorist
        • '04 330Xi Sport 6 Speed - Snowmobile
        • '07 530 Xi - Highway Star
        • http://www.imwcarparts.com/e30-m3-parts.htm


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ron ///Man View Post
          Mark:

          Are you still running the idle air control valve? If you are, you might consider removing it and doing without it. That would eliminate the need for this fitting. I eliminated it on my race car, and quite honestly, the car runs every bit as good without it. You may actually avoid a burned ECU if you run without it since it's always been suspected that a stuck air control valve could be the primary cause of burned / blown transistor's in the ECU. How many times have we heard of them in people's ECU's causing no-start ?
          ^^^^ I'm in this camp right here ^^^

          I have 4 different cars with S14s and no ICV on any of them (street or race).

          I have all mine set up to eliminate any possible ways for air to get into the plenum other than the big hole with the filter LOL.
          jimmy p.
          87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
          88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
          88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
          92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
          98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
          04 Ford F350 - V10

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you need to go stand-alone to eliminate the ICV?

            Comment


            • #7
              No, just unplug the connector at the ICV and remove all the hoses and plug the holes where these were attached

              Comment


              • #8
                When I deleted mine I used Jimmy's recommendations here.
                https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s...lve#post718323

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Steve88M3 View Post
                  Mark, does the carbon plenum come with a provision for installing this component or will you have to cut into it?
                  There is a provision for installing the elbow.

                  1990 M3

                  Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your M3

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I conversed with John via email and he said the elbow transfers over. Now to figure out how to remove it (or find a substitute). If any of you have this elbow let me know - I'd like to purchase it from you.

                    BTW - this piece is excellently crafted. Quite beautiful. Probably weighs 3 lbs.









                    I appreciate everyone's replies and suggestions. I did read through the threads discussing the ICV and the pros / cons for removing it and the associated hoses. Right now I am not having any ICV issues so I am going to leave it in place and connect it to the new plenum. If somehow this proves un-manageable I'll take the suggestions and remove it.

                    Let me know if you have one of these elbows laying around. I would be open to purchasing it.

                    I'll keep everyone posted.

                    Thanks!
                    Mark
                    1990 M3

                    Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your M3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Very nice air box.

                      On the question of the ICV there are quite a few considerations. Might even have to create a decision tree to find the answer for your needs.
                      Is it race or street?
                      Air conditioning or no?
                      Climate with relatively constant cold start temperatures or no?
                      Like to have to play nursemaid to the car on cold start like a carb'd engine or want it to operate like an EFI car should?
                      Like to have the engine fire and run without touching the throttle or like to sit there and give it more air?
                      OEM AFM or MAF or AphaN fuel control method.
                      OEM Motronic or after market ECU with modern control features?

                      The ICV does a lot behind the scenes to keep a desired rpm. Unfortunately with the Motronic, one cannot log the relationship of ICV open position along with RPM (warmup or hot idle), nor valve position when an air conditioning clutch engages/disengages with lights on. On a modern system it also opens to anticipate air needs at various oil/air temperatures so the rpm doesn't dip on snap closed throttles in a manner similar to a dashpot on carb throttles.

                      Just keep in mind if using the AFM or MAF all air flow needs to be measured, non bypassed with the ICV intake hose getting air elsewhere.

                      The elbow in the stock air box is just a tight fit, mine is loose and I added a set screw to keep it from vibrating out. Any air inleakage is inconsequential.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JimK View Post
                        Very nice air box.

                        On the question of the ICV there are quite a few considerations. Might even have to create a decision tree to find the answer for your needs.
                        1) Is it race or street?
                        2) Air conditioning or no?
                        3) Climate with relatively constant cold start temperatures or no?
                        4) Like to have to play nursemaid to the car on cold start like a carb'd engine or want it to operate like an EFI car should?
                        5) Like to have the engine fire and run without touching the throttle or like to sit there and give it more air?
                        6) OEM AFM or MAF or AphaN fuel control method.
                        7) OEM Motronic or after market ECU with modern control features?
                        1) 75% track / 25% Street
                        2) A/C is used on hot days returning from the track. A/C would also be used as needed on other Summer days (i.e. Cars & Coffee).
                        3) Car is stored in the garage and driven in temps above 45 degrees (due to tire restrictions). No cold start requirements to speak of.
                        4) F-no. Want to get in and go (with a proper warm up of course).
                        5) Fire without touching (as I do now).
                        6) Currently OEM AFM.
                        7) OEM Motronic

                        Most of this leads me to keeping the ICV for now and sourcing an elbow for the new plenum.
                        1990 M3

                        Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your M3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mark, I think it was posted above, those fittings in the stock plenums are just a press fit, they come out pretty easy unless a previous owner has done what most long timer owners have done and epoxy them in with a 2 part epoxy or sleeve retainer.
                          Grab hold of it with a large channel locks and give it a big wiggle.

                          If you look at yours close you should be able to see if someone has glued it in in some way.
                          If someone in the past has used an epoxy or retainer it may be a bit more stubborn to break free.
                          If not, and its the factory press fit it should come out pretty easy.
                          Hell, the reason why we all glued them in was that the damn things fall out creating vacuum leaks.
                          Should prove pretty simple to get yours out. If you are keeping the ICV, make sure you seal it into the CF plenum somehow so it doesnt pop out and creat a giant vacuum leak.
                          jimmy p.
                          87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                          88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                          88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                          92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                          98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                          04 Ford F350 - V10

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mark, thanks for bring this up. I was about to join John's group buy for a stock replica plenum too, but now I might rethink that. I unfortunately JB Welded the elbow to my stock plenum, so I don't think it's coming out again short of destroying the plenum. Buying a discarded stock plenum just to get the elbow also seems like an excessively pricey solution for the problem. Anyone with a stock plenum that has the elbow popped out who's willing to take it to a machinist to produce a few for a GB?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chris W View Post
                              Anyone with a stock plenum that has the elbow popped out who's willing to take it to a machinist to produce a few for a GB?
                              I am certainly willing to participate . . .
                              1990 M3

                              Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your M3

                              Comment

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