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Future engine rebuild who do you recommend eastern US now

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  • fastricky
    replied
    In a related question is there an interior upholsterer in the NY / Albany area anyone can recommend? Need to redo the interior on my M3

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  • Kevin///m3
    replied
    Joe built my engine and did a great job. Runs very well, no issues. Very transparent process.

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  • stevesingo
    replied
    For a long time I have had the equations contained within the Prof Blair and Associates in my "Auto Calcs.xls" spreadsheet which contains all my automotive math.

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  • First E30 M3
    replied
    Mathematical calculations are extreme important when one is after power. http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine..._yardstick.htm very useful link for one that is after understanding the proper concept.

    But all of the above is absolute useless if the Dyno which final test is made is not accurate. BMEP will also vary with the parts used in specific engine build. If the power shown with given known parts used in specific build are not matching the HP shown but the Dyno shows the prop BMEP/lbt then we know its BS. VE will also affect the BMEP so parts used are important in this package.

    S14 hi hp is Busyness and why you see often people adjust dyno numbers because regular Customer do not understand that making power from NA is expensive, and even more expensive from 1984 S14.

    Leave a comment:


  • stevesingo
    replied
    Then the goals you set don't make sense. You can't make 300whp at 7800 and only have 200 lbft at the wheels as [email protected] is 202 w lbft, now withstanding the fact 300 whp, lets say 330fly hp at 7800rpm puts the BMEP at a level which is barely attainable by best race engine developers in the world*, the likes of BMW, Honda, Cosworth works F1 teams back in the NA days or current day MotoGP engines.

    Using Prof Blair and Associates findings (15Bar BMEP Max), we can predict the theoretical* max torque for a 2467cc S14 at 217lbft when measured on an engine dyno and corrected to DIN standards.

    If we take 1992 DTM (Last BMW Works supported), and take the widely published figures of 370-380 hp, we get a BMEP of 13.95-14.33Bar. In such a race engine, where peak torque is close to the rpm of peak power, we may only see a small increase in BMEP at peak torque, say 14.5-14.6, so about 210-213lbft.

    How do you think the customer would feel when you miss the goal? Is it worth your reputation?

    *Unlimited funding race engine development based upon an engine architecture designed specifically for the purpose, not a road derived engine!

    As an aside, I find it fascinating when trawling the web looking at engine stuff in the UK where there is a huge club scene for rallying, with cars mainly using 2.0-2.5 litre 4 cylinder engines (Ford Duratec, GM XE, NA Cosworth YB, Millington etc. The market for such engines is very competitive and there are claims of engines making 100lbft/litre, BMEP of 17Bar. Utter BS.

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  • JOEBMW
    replied
    Originally posted by stevesingo View Post

    An engine in an a car which makes 300whp at the hubs* on a Dynapac, will not make 300whp on an inertia Dynojet with a single large diameter roller, never mind a loaded twin roller dyno such as a Mainline.

    Take your (rather lovely) Silver/Grey M3, which, IIRC from your build thread, was dyno'd on a Dynapac. On your web page, it states 300whp, 200lbft (it does not state wheel or flywheel, I'll take it as wheel lbft) and 7800rpm. This strikes me as a little odd.

    300hp @ 7800rpm is 202lbft. (300/7800*5252) Did you round down? It seems strange that peak torque is at peak rpm.

    Taking RotoTest** data at face value, 300 hub hp is about 330 fly hp and 200 hub lbft is about 220 fly lbft.

    Using some simple math, that gives Break Mean Effective Pressure (BMEP) of 15.36 and 15.21 respectively.

    You can read Prof Blair and Associates (Right column on the 2nd Page) and ponder whether that is likely. http://www.profblairandassociates.co..._to_basics.zip ***

    So in respect to your build options, if I had $20,000 dollars to spend, your claims would cast significant doubt as to my thinking of considering them as a realistic option.

    *There is a significant difference in power measured at the hubs to and that of power measured at a roller through a continuously deflection tyre which is most likely not sitting in line or perpendicular to the roller due to toe and camber.

    **Swedish hub dyno manufacturer who tested hundres of OEM cars on heir dynos and discovered the mean difference between claimed engine power and measured hub power was 9-10%.

    *** Prof Blair is an automotive engineer of some renown. Prof Blair and Associates state "the maximum BMEP potential of the simple naturally aspirated, spark-ignition, gasoline burning, four-stroke racing engine at high piston speed is some 15 bar" and "Today’s MotoGP engine also has a BMEP value of about 14 bar" at the time of writing in 2008.
    Thanks for the compliment about my car.

    The hp and torque numbers are not both at 7800rmp. The 7800 is max RPM.

    The numbers are not my from car. Zeppieri 003 is in process for a client and those numbers are our goals.

    As for dynos and their readings, I’m not an expert or claim to be an expert about them. I simply use them as tools. I don’t hide anything from my clients or make false claims or empty promises. My goal is to deliver the client a proper built e30 m3 that is completely rebuilt and custom to them.

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  • stevesingo
    replied
    Originally posted by JOEBMW View Post

    I've used Dynapack in the past and other dyno as wells. My intention with my post was to reference our different build options.
    An engine in an a car which makes 300whp at the hubs* on a Dynapac, will not make 300whp on an inertia Dynojet with a single large diameter roller, never mind a loaded twin roller dyno such as a Mainline.

    Take your (rather lovely) Silver/Grey M3, which, IIRC from your build thread, was dyno'd on a Dynapac. On your web page, it states 300whp, 200lbft (it does not state wheel or flywheel, I'll take it as wheel lbft) and 7800rpm. This strikes me as a little odd.

    300hp @ 7800rpm is 202lbft. (300/7800*5252) Did you round down? It seems strange that peak torque is at peak rpm.

    Taking RotoTest** data at face value, 300 hub hp is about 330 fly hp and 200 hub lbft is about 220 fly lbft.

    Using some simple math, that gives Break Mean Effective Pressure (BMEP) of 15.36 and 15.21 respectively.

    You can read Prof Blair and Associates (Right column on the 2nd Page) and ponder whether that is likely. http://www.profblairandassociates.co..._to_basics.zip ***

    So in respect to your build options, if I had $20,000 dollars to spend, your claims would cast significant doubt as to my thinking of considering them as a realistic option.

    *There is a significant difference in power measured at the hubs to and that of power measured at a roller through a continuously deflection tyre which is most likely not sitting in line or perpendicular to the roller due to toe and camber.

    **Swedish hub dyno manufacturer who tested hundres of OEM cars on heir dynos and discovered the mean difference between claimed engine power and measured hub power was 9-10%.

    *** Prof Blair is an automotive engineer of some renown. Prof Blair and Associates state "the maximum BMEP potential of the simple naturally aspirated, spark-ignition, gasoline burning, four-stroke racing engine at high piston speed is some 15 bar" and "Today’s MotoGP engine also has a BMEP value of about 14 bar" at the time of writing in 2008.

    Leave a comment:


  • JOEBMW
    replied
    Originally posted by fastricky View Post

    Hey you should update your signature with your new website... also where in NY are you located? Thanks - Rich
    yes i update thanks.

    located in Yonkers NY

    Leave a comment:


  • JOEBMW
    replied
    Originally posted by stevesingo View Post
    Joe, am I correct in understanding you use a Dynapack hub dyno? In such a case, it would be clearer for prospective customers as whp as the same car on a roller dyno will measure differently.
    I've used Dynapack in the past and other dyno as wells. My intention with my post was to reference our different build options.

    Leave a comment:


  • fastricky
    replied
    Originally posted by JOEBMW View Post
    I am located in NY and offer complete rebuild packages.

    I have built engine in stock form and 2.5s making ~225whp up to ~300whp.

    you can email me with any questions. [email protected]
    Hey you should update your signature with your new website... also where in NY are you located? Thanks - Rich

    Leave a comment:


  • 1990m3
    replied
    Originally posted by evommm View Post
    No I’m burning a little oil more then usual and my motor was beat on early in its life and held up great but it’s time
    might as well go bigger if I’m in there already
    Yeah but you can have a valve job done on your head by local machine shop for $500, bottom end with new bearings, rehone and piston rings for about $1k assembled and then you need some timing components and gasket pieces. Basic S14 refreshes are fairly inexpensive if you're going to keep a relatively stock street motor. It's the upgraded pistons, rods, 2.5 crank and associated bearings, cams, springs, etc which add up fast.

    Leave a comment:


  • evommm
    replied
    No I’m burning a little oil more then usual and my motor was beat on early in its life and held up great but it’s time
    might as well go bigger if I’m in there already

    Leave a comment:


  • mwagner10702
    replied
    MM is still in business

    M3 Engines - S14 - Metric Mechanic

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  • discountpirate
    replied
    So your current engine runs fine and you just want to swap it our for more displacement? Back about 10 years ago there were places (i.e. metric mechanic or mechtech maybe) where you could get standard rebuilt s14 short or long blocks built to different stages. I am not aware of any of those old school businesses still rebuilding s14 or even still being around. I'm sure prices have gone up too but it used to be minimum $10k for just a basic rebuild on an S14, up to like $30k for fully built.

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  • stevesingo
    replied
    Joe, am I correct in understanding you use a Dynapack hub dyno? In such a case, it would be clearer for prospective customers as whp as the same car on a roller dyno will measure differently.

    Leave a comment:

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