Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Race car weight savings......

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Race car weight savings......

    How the heck did they get them down to 2000lbs with cage? Mine is gutted but still has full doors and power windows. Sunroof tray has been cut out with steel panel sealed back in.

    Best ideas to lose weight?

    Gut doors? 50lbs?
    CF hood? 30lbs?
    CF trunk (already have CF wing)? 20lbs?
    Lexan glass? 20lbs?
    Small Battery? 25lbs?
    New chassis harness with PDM? 25lbs?
    Fuel cell? ?

    Thats 175lbs. My car is 25xx now with half tank, power windows, and stock chassis harness. Just wondering where some weight savings can be found.

    T







  • #2
    Real 2000 lbs requires alot. Its serious work. I think David Pan achieved near that on his former club race car and I remember him telling me the last few lbs were coming off in ounces.
    I dont think any E30M3 is getting there with being dipped or media blasted.
    I think David had even cut out the entire rear package tray and rear seat bulkhead to get to that number.

    You listed all the big ticket items, I think you might be a little generous on the nets savings for each, but those are the low hanging fruit items to go at first.
    Glass is heavy, composite windows really help.
    The doors are heavy, gutting those is real.
    Full rewire, yes the street cars have alot of wire in them, alot.
    Small light battery helps a bit, even my small AGM batt weights 20lbs, a full size batt has gotta be around 40-50 or so. I'd love to go Lithium but I'm still a bit scared of that technology.
    The fuel cell isnt in itself a huge savings, but it does allow really simplifying the fuel system.
    Last edited by jimmy p.; 11-09-2021, 05:31 AM.
    jimmy p.
    87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
    88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
    88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
    92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
    98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
    04 Ford F350 - V10

    Comment


    • #3
      I heard a single 3” exhaust helps as does coil overs as compared to JS setup. Have not measured the difference myself. A relative who used to work on rally cars said whenever they removed a nut or bolt that was not structural it got replaced with a aluminum nut etc. slow gain but eventually they had a coffee can of bolts that was a few pounds. E-brake and components can come out.
      David Hellman

      Comment


      • #4
        I had to thing about it for a sec because mines been gutted for so long I assume that these are givens:
        Entire HVAC system
        Glove Compartment
        Entire central pod in dashboard
        Stock Instrument cluster
        Stock LCAs for Gen 2 or Gen 3 Gruppe A arms
        All sound deadening
        All insulation (including the underside of the dash if you still run the fascia of a dash)
        Cut off any and all unused brackets, studs & mounting points.
        Bumper supports are heavy, I use two little 10" bumperettes in front to hold the bumper cover to the car, the rear is completely been filleted down to a skeleton
        Big ticket is acid dip it.

        jimmy p.
        87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
        88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
        88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
        92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
        98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
        04 Ford F350 - V10

        Comment


        • #5
          Fuel cells typically weigh more than an equivalent capacity stock fuel tank. The bladder itself is fairly heavy, and it still needs to sit in a metal enclosure similar in weight to a stock fuel tank.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post
            I had to thing about it for a sec because mines been gutted for so long I assume that these are givens:
            Entire HVAC system
            Glove Compartment
            Entire central pod in dashboard
            Stock Instrument cluster
            Stock LCAs for Gen 2 or Gen 3 Gruppe A arms
            All sound deadening
            All insulation (including the underside of the dash if you still run the fascia of a dash)
            Cut off any and all unused brackets, studs & mounting points.
            Bumper supports are heavy, I use two little 10" bumperettes in front to hold the bumper cover to the car, the rear is completely been filleted down to a skeleton
            Big ticket is acid dip it.
            I got pretty close to that list:

            Things taken out:
            CF Hood
            CF front fenders
            CF mirrors
            HVAC system (just the center dash parts remain... ONE DAY!)
            Power steering delete
            Clutch fan delete (added electrical 12" fan)
            Glove Compartment (all of it)
            Radio and all speakers and all accessible wires. Left the antenna.
            Sunroof replaced with CF unit.
            All interior seats and panels except drivers seat.
            All sound deadening
            All insulation (including the underside of the dash)
            Cut off some unused brackets, studs & mounting points.
            Cat-less Borla system (but going away soon).

            Things added in:
            Half Autopower roll bar
            Put a home depot shag carpet back in.
            17" BBS Mag rims (not sure if this is a add or subtract to weight, but guessing it's additional).
            Evo wing (although the FG version seems lighter than stock?)
            electrical 12" fan
            LINK Auto management system (maybe added a lbs)

            Things yet to do:
            CF Evo Intake Box
            CF trunk setup.
            Chase Bays BBE kit to replace break booster
            Cut some more bracket/items out that seem useless
            Remove all unused wires and re-run a new loom (dreading this).

            The HVAC, sound deadening, Power Steering, and the body panels were by far the most weight, maybe 150-200lbs. Everything after that has been in the teens and now in the lbs at best.

            I won't do the doors or the windows. I feel like the doors bring some safety () and the windows, I don't want plastic windows.
            "Just road, seat, ASS; THE END!" - Jeremy Clarkson
            "If you had a choice between a million dollars and world peace, what would you get for your E30 M3?" - ItsNotTheNissan
            onfirelabs.com twitter.com/suga_shane

            Comment


            • #7
              ^^^ Good list you reminded me of a few other good items I didnt list
              Power Steering - Power Brake - Fan, those are good ones.

              I hate to be a nanny but I personally wouldnt use that Chase Bays kit, relying on a single master like they do.
              I know they poo-poo the people who caution it on their site, but I want "some" form of two masters be it a dual master like the stock based units or twins on a balance bar. That Chase Bays kit scares the crap out of me no matter how light and simple it is (and I'm a huge fan of light and simple).
              jimmy p.
              87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
              88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
              88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
              92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
              98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
              04 Ford F350 - V10

              Comment


              • #8
                I unfortunately agree. Only reason why I haven’t done it. All of the Chase Bays stuff looks nice and is intriguing but it just sits in my shopping cart while I ponder why I really need any of that stuff.
                "Just road, seat, ASS; THE END!" - Jeremy Clarkson
                "If you had a choice between a million dollars and world peace, what would you get for your E30 M3?" - ItsNotTheNissan
                onfirelabs.com twitter.com/suga_shane

                Comment


                • #9
                  Having had a shell dipped, I can't say I weighed it before and and after. What I did do was add 14kgs/30lb of underseal to replicate the stock finish. Also, the tar sound insulation pads would probably have been another 10kg/22lb.

                  Of course, how much paint you put on a clean shell would also influence the outcome to he tune of about 1kg/2lb per litre saved.
                  Sport Evo No.47

                  My Sport Evo Restoration

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post
                    I had to thing about it for a sec because mines been gutted for so long I assume that these are givens:
                    Entire HVAC system
                    Glove Compartment
                    Entire central pod in dashboard
                    Stock Instrument cluster
                    Stock LCAs for Gen 2 or Gen 3 Gruppe A arms
                    All sound deadening
                    All insulation (including the underside of the dash if you still run the fascia of a dash)
                    Cut off any and all unused brackets, studs & mounting points.
                    Bumper supports are heavy, I use two little 10" bumperettes in front to hold the bumper cover to the car, the rear is completely been filleted down to a skeleton
                    Big ticket is acid dip it.
                    Yes entire HVAC is gone, entire central pod is gone, digital dash, stock LCAs, sound deadening is gone, bumper supports are just like yours-just enough of the support remains at the front two bolts to hold it on. works out really well actually.

                    T

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stevesingo View Post
                      Having had a shell dipped, I can't say I weighed it before and and after.
                      I don't think there would have been a significant difference in the big picture, since you are going to replace most of the primer/paint/seam sealer that the dip removes. There are acid dipping processes that have been used on racing shells that do remove/thin the metal, but your standard dip used in auto restoration won't do so.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'll add another angle here- that the DTM cars never weighed 2000lbs. The group A cars were 2650 or so. I would bet the DTM cars were 2300. 2000 is not realistic with a metal unibody and iron block. No matter how much you gut from the car the cage will add a couple hundred lbs. In the case of the early cars, the cages were pretty flimsy to save weight. Building a car to such spec today wouldn't pass tech. Realistically I think dipping the chassis might save 50-80lbs if you've taken zero time to strip undercoating prior to that. 2500lbs for a functional car that has wipers and some basic hvac probably makes for a perfect target. (IMO)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I just finished rebuilding my race car from the ground up.

                          The stock wiring has been thinned to only what's necessary,
                          Dtm replica cage
                          I made a carbon fiber hood, trunk lid, roof, and outer door skins (Although I have yet to finish the driver door because I use normal e30 doors and haven't found a driver door yet to cut up.
                          ATL Fuel cell
                          Stock battery and cable
                          Stock dash with one Tach where the stock cluster was. There are a bunch of other gauges where the center vents were and a gauge pod ontop of the dash
                          Bumper mounts and supports made out of aluminum
                          Plastic trim and rubber seals have been retained
                          Rear Trailing arms triangulated like early dtm/group A cars and custom front subframe with tubular section. I probably added a little weight in the front and rear suspension
                          All factory glass with manual windows and houndstooth door cards, The quarter windows (polycarbonate)
                          Stock booster setup but abs is deleted
                          Carbon airbox setup
                          Bigger oil cooler and dtm style engine oil pan
                          Bonrath Mono wiper (no real weight savings besides the one wiper)
                          One Recaro Spg seat

                          So you get the picture and my car weighs 2237 with 17 inch Kosei's and with 15 inch Kosei's it was 2197. I had researched a while back and found Dtm cars were around 2200 so that's what I was shooting for with my car

                          I still have to finish my carbon driver door and I just got a brake booster delete kit from Lee.

                          So I'm hoping to shed another 35-40 pounds

                          IMG_6963 by jon allie, on Flickr

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'll have to check my records but I believe I got my DM Club Racer down to 2150. I did acid dip it, and, it saved 64 lbs! I weighed it before and after. That included paint. so I'm going to guess that paint added back another 25 lbs? Mine has custom wire harness, CF Dash, lexan windows all around, CF doors, hood, trunk & bumpers. I removed the HVAC box, and every bracket / mount that I didn't need. The only thing I missed on was putting the driver on a diet...
                            Ron ///Man

                            • '91 Gr-A Former CiBiEmme / Ravaglia - Sold
                            • '90 M3 Faux EVOII Alpineweiss 36K Orig Owner - The Queen
                            • '91 M3 Faux EVO III Brilliantrot Euro Driveline - The Rocket
                            • '91 M3 Faux Gr-A Club Racer DM - The Alter EGO
                            • '89 M3 M3T / ITR Club Racer
                            • '94 Spec E36 - Eh....
                            • '09 M3 - Tarmac Terrorist
                            • '04 330Xi Sport 6 Speed - Snowmobile
                            • '07 530 Xi - Highway Star
                            • http://www.imwcarparts.com/e30-m3-parts.htm


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Alex brings up a good point that I should have noted, I think its a misconception that the factory cars were 2000 lbs.
                              2200-ish was always the figure I have gone by and that is pretty close to what mine weighs.

                              As I posted above I think David Pan had the lightest E30 I had ever personally encountered and it was right around 2000 lbs if my memory is correct and he really worked for that.
                              jimmy p.
                              87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                              88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                              88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                              92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                              98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                              04 Ford F350 - V10

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X