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Redux e30 m3, great video

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  • #16
    Originally posted by CCarey3 View Post
    It would be nice if they made the billet S14 block available separately... assuming it didn't burn oil that is.
    LOL I am guessing 99.99% they are not making billet blocks.
    I would bet folding money if some sucker err customer actually wanted that "option"they they would get in line for the Tim Maatman blocks from Holland.
    Discussed in this thread: https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s...ck-convo-on-fb
    jimmy p.
    87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
    88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
    88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
    92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
    98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
    04 Ford F350 - V10

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    • #17
      i like what they did - im biased to Joe's builds though.

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      • #18
        A terrible investment idea))

        Take a real classic, kill it with high tech upgrades and ask for 4x the money.

        Like taking the Mona Lisa, painting slicone tits and botox lips and asking for 4x the money.

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        • #19
          if that were true singers wldnt be 1.3M

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          • #20
            I think these cars can not maintain those price tags in the long run compared to well preserved stock classics. This is agains the core idea of being a classic.

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            • #21
              disagree

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              • #22
                Originally posted by RickyN F355 View Post
                if that were true singers wldnt be 1.3M
                this car is a far cry from a Singer

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                • #23
                  It looks exactly like a fake m3. They should have used a 325

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                  • #24
                    Long time, no posting. But I saw these videos and have followed the Redux story for a while, and knew the good people of S14 would have an opinion.

                    Firstly. Here's that Red Evo for sale at Munich Legends in the UK featured in the Top Gear video

                    LINK >> BMW E30 M3 EVO II (munichlegends.co.uk)


                    Redux

                    I get frustrated with this whole thing for a number of reasons.

                    Simon Lord (the owner - Not a Lord, just his surname) is a prickly character. There's a vid on YT where he talks to BMW CCA and at one point he gets irritated with someone off camera, and isn't very polite. I've had chats with him via Instagram and a few forums and it's clear he is right and you are wrong. And questions or anything mildly critical will not be tolerated and responses will be curt, instead of professional. Doesn't bode well for customers if they have concerns. Several people have asked about them selling components separately if people wanted. eg They are remaking the turn signal & wiper stalks which would be good for the Restoration market. And Lord always flatly says they wont. So he's more "business" than for the love of the car. He obviously feels it would devalue the brand. Or he just wants to thumb his nose at fans of the car.

                    Roots. If Simon had taken his own M3, and modified it to his ideal spec. And off the back of that, people had approached him to make them a similar version, it would help. That's what Rob Dickinson of Singer did. So when Redux turned up a few years back with a few pics and some media interest (that came about due to him knowing people and having them write copy rather than a car producing it's own PR) it all felt a bit money grabbing. When the first car was built, the Turbocharged engine just smacked of someone that had NO idea about the heritage of the M3. I actually wondered if he'd ever owned one at that point!

                    The car. So the basic idea is sound. Take a car, fit better suspension, brakes, wheels. Motec ECU is cool. Even the addition of CF body parts makes sense. I like the idea of the reprofiled boot lid. (though wouldn't want it) Seam welding probably a good idea too.

                    But the car is full of weird ideas too.

                    The aforementioned small TBs. A airbox that looks custom to them, so is it better? The reason I fear for the oil burn is it's apparently a fairly old, high mileage engine bored 2.3 not a 2.5. I'd actually question the power/torque figures as well. The 3 dots on components and the dotted redux logo look AWFUL to me! The centre console which is a lump of billet with the "centred" radio again, looks all wrong. As does the switches inside it. Look like cheap rubbish/garbage you buy from eBay! The door cards and details of fit / finish are nowhere near what a car that costs this much should be! There's no rear view mirror either for some reason. The leather on the seats looks baggy too. There's clearly stone chips all over the car, (thin paint?) the paint around the trunk button is flaking away. Left front part of the bumper doesn't line with the fender etc etc

                    The Top Gear video also suggests the car isn't quite there in terms of handling either. Singer have one or both of the Franchitti brothers to fall back on for dynamic assessment. Lord appears to have no one. And why completely remove the ABS for a road car? Modern ABS pumps weigh far less, so fit that!

                    What made me laugh was that it turns out Redux don't actually have a workshop they've been beavering away in at all! The car was built FOR Mr Lord to his specs by another UK company Retropower – Design, Engineering & Restoration There's no mention of them at all, until a day after the vids dropped when a IG post said as much. Bit insulting. But does go a little way to explain the mark up.

                    The price!

                    IMO not worth the price at all.

                    As above, you could get the Evo2 from Munich Legends

                    AND

                    An ex Steve Soper 1991 BTCC car from Amspeed
                    LINK >> Prodrive - Amspeed Racing



                    Simon has said online the majority of interest is coming from the USA. I don't doubt that, though interest is not confirmed builds. I also doubt we'll ever see more than 4-6 "redux" M3s out there before the whole operation winds up. The car might actually work if it was 200k all in with them supplying a donor.

                    I reckon give 200K / $260K to a user on here and ask them to build a good fast road/ track M3 and they'd get 90-95% of the way there and have change!
                    SOLD

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                    • #25
                      Rich,

                      Nailed it.

                      When this was first discussed on Pistonheads.co.uk, there were many who tried to offer advice. Mr Lord was certain they were wrong.

                      For me, it is all too contrived and not well enough finished.

                      The issue of the trunk lid fitment. Mine is fine. A pointless, well, point.

                      Door cards look awful.

                      The ICE/HVAC panel; the stock panel is not exactly a luxurious item. Difficult to know how you could make it a worse thing. But they managed it.

                      Front bumper; wht was wrong with the original brake air intakes?

                      Jenvey TBS; did someone baulk at the cost of originals? Probably. Lucky they didn't want sliders.

                      I could go on...but I'l leave it with....

                      Sounds like this car has been hashed together to generate publicity to try and save an ill conceived business plan.

                      Ironically, this car may well be valuable in the future as one of two of a production run of a failed venture.
                      Sport Evo No.47

                      My Sport Evo Restoration

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                      • #26
                        Rich - Nailed It x 2

                        jimmy p.
                        87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                        88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                        88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                        92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                        98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                        04 Ford F350 - V10

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Good thread and thoughtful reply Rich. Ignoring the price for a moment, I don't have too many quibbles with the interior. It looks like they're using a PDU and it's clean and tidy. I think the upholstery job on the seats isn't great. The fabric doesn't look tight. I don't think leather is a great choice either, or at least for the whole seat. Some references to EXE-TC suspension as used on the Singer. Top spec stuff but the Singer itself has been criticized for poor handling (or I should say, unrefined) on B Roads. I have a friend who does some engineering work for them. Brakes look good. I think cars that try to span the gap between race car and street car are awkward. They end up being too unrefined to be fun on the road and too expensive. This isn't so much a work of engineering as it is a project. It's very similar to the Automobili Amos Lancia which is reasonably close in price. I had a good close look at one of those the other day and honestly aside from the carbon panels I could have built that car myself. (not something you want to hear)

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                          • #28
                            Retropower does lovely work, I've followed them on YouTube since they built the Mk1 Escort for Gordon Murray. If they're good enough to build a car for someone that particular, they should be able to build anything. Click here if you don't have anything important to do for the next many hours: https://youtu.be/nSiG7oNXC6w

                            But build quality can't cover up the preferences and direction of the end customer, and in this case I think you guys have nailed the points well. I'm not sure what Mr. Lord set out to create. I would have started with standard E30s if I wanted to go the Singer route with BMW - you can raid the parts bin and build something excellent out of something mass-produced, take standard and turn it into something special. The Redux is, from what I can tell, a seam-welded, carbon bodied version of a very highly tuned street M3. With so much of the car replaced, and the option for a billet block, I do wonder how complete of a base car is required?

                            All that said, I have to admit that I love the satin finish on the carbon airbox. The stereo head unit concept is a head-scratcher. The fascias - so much work for something that ends up looking so close to stock, but slightly worse to my eye. I hope Mr. Lord reconsiders making some of these components available to order as a way to recoup some of the tooling costs, I'd love to slam a billet-machined turn signal stalk and change lanes with AUTHORITY.
                            1989 Lachs
                            1988 Lachs - sold
                            1988 DS - sold
                            Car blog
                            Bay Area M3 FB group

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