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  • #16
    Fastricky,

    Why MLS gasket ? Share with us what you or the engine builder did not like in the original gasket ? MLS will cause 2 issues a) leak/s b) thermal issue/s

    I can see reduced oiling on the pistons. Jim/MM loves to add as he calls it "turbulence" groves on the valves, you should have replaced them.

    What exhaust system and headers do you have ?

    Regards,
    Anri.
    E30M3
    E28M5
    E24M6
    E24M6
    E24M6
    E24M6
    E31840Ci/S62.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh...=dd&shelf_id=0

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by First E30 M3 View Post
      Fastricky,

      Why MLS gasket ? Share with us what you or the engine builder did not like in the original gasket ? MLS will cause 2 issues a) leak/s b) thermal issue/s

      I can see reduced oiling on the pistons. Jim/MM loves to add as he calls it "turbulence" groves on the valves, you should have replaced them.

      What exhaust system and headers do you have ?

      Regards,
      Anri.
      From my builder:

      "With the proper finishes from machining on the head and block mating surfaces I expect no issues. Separately - and most importantly, we needed to use a custom thickness gasket to compensate for the fact that the blocks deck height and cylinder head have both been cut many times from the various rebuilds. Even the aftermarket second available thickness gasket was not enough for clearances here. I use MLS on all our 6 cylinder builds without one issue yet.

      We replaced the MM fancy golf ball modded valves.

      You have the standard 4/2 collector / header. Factory new oem middle section / catted, and the Eisenmann sport muffler as you requested.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by fastricky View Post

        From my builder:

        "With the proper finishes from machining on the head and block mating surfaces I expect no issues. Separately - and most importantly, we needed to use a custom thickness gasket to compensate for the fact that the blocks deck height and cylinder head have both been cut many times from the various rebuilds. Even the aftermarket second available thickness gasket was not enough for clearances here. I use MLS on all our 6 cylinder builds without one issue yet.

        We replaced the MM fancy golf ball modded valves.

        You have the standard 4/2 collector / header. Factory new oem middle section / catted, and the Eisenmann sport muffler as you requested.

        That is a sound answer from the builder on head gasket. What are the specs on CR and cams?

        Beautiful work and pictures. I didn't know Tyspeed could build an S14, very good to know for us Northeast people!
        Last edited by AlpineRunner; 05-03-2022, 03:13 PM.
        "It is needless to say that self-propelling vehicles, like other machines, will never do as much for one who does not understand them as for one who does."

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        • #19
          Here's the dyno scan, anyone have a stock 2.3 dyno scan to post? I'd love to see the comparison.

          Comment


          • #20
            Unfortunately, Mustang dynos are good tuning tools, but can provide any power/torque readout that the operator wants them to. They are utterly useless for comparing the output of one engine vs another, unless they are both run on the same dyno, same settings, same operator.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Ironhead View Post
              Unfortunately, Mustang dynos are good tuning tools, but can provide any power/torque readout that the operator wants them to. They are utterly useless for comparing the output of one engine vs another, unless they are both run on the same dyno, same settings, same operator.
              OK understood. Tho' seems like "at the wheels" HP is generally @ 160 from my informal research, so suffice it to say I'm very pleased with @222hp at the wheels. The car definitely feels great. The mid section of the exhaust now rattles against the heat shield so need to sort that, might consider headers at the same time.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by fastricky View Post

                OK understood. Tho' seems like "at the wheels" HP is generally @ 160 from my informal research, so suffice it to say I'm very pleased with @222hp at the wheels. The car definitely feels great. The mid section of the exhaust now rattles against the heat shield so need to sort that, might consider headers at the same time.
                Fastricky,

                160 RWHP is at DynoJet numbers. Don't compare DynoJet with the 222hp you have...I was working on a S38 project on a Mustang dyno for some time but in order to ensure the dyno was showing equal numbers to dynojet a mustang dyno technician came down to adjust the settings and then it was dead on with dyno jet within 3-4rwhp. But in most cases the Mustang dyno is all over the place.

                I have not tested how restrictive the 2.3 stock exhaust is but I am sure in order to meets emissions the stock exhaust/cat is not so friendly when you start pushing for power.


                Long ago I decided to do a test on S38 E34M5 all standard engine stock exhaust system see how far I can get on the power. I put 280/280 cams which I had available on my parts shelf. Due to its std 10CR I was available to move the intake and exhaust cams on stock valve pockets by a lot. Via the EV300 Joe and I started to tune the set up and we landed at 285rwhp stock injectors are 240cc at 3bars were not close to get maxed out. On the same car with std 264/264 I re-time the std 110/110 LSA on the OEM cams and tuned it and I was able to pull 285rwhp.

                So the 280/280 cams never made any gain in power even with different LSA I tried.The engine ran on a very low timing and fuel which is sure indication that it was not discharging.

                On the same exact set up all stock engine 10CR etc but with hi flow custom exhaust system (not supersprint or any off the shelf) I was able to increase the power up to 295RWHP with the 280/280. My 280CC injectors at 3.5 bar/regulator were maxed out at 6000rpm and the ignition timing was pushed up to 28degrees.Then I pushed for more power with custom profile cams I installed after the 280s. I was able to bump the power up to 315RWHP, the engine needed more fuel and more ignition with larger injectors 370cc at 3.5 bar reg duty cycle is around 74% and timing moved to 31 degrees.

                Knowing the CFM on S14 2.3/S38 3.5 head and the chart on the std camshaft profile cams it is very hard to believe that with increased CR ratio, larger valves, head ports you will gain power on the stock exhaust system with its very restrictive size and Catalyst. Due to hi combustion pressure you will be limited to fuel and ignition.

                Currently I am working on S38 with the 280/280 cams and 10:5CR the engine made 320rwhp/330rwtq on hub dyno after being tuned. Knowing that the 280cc injectors at 3.5 bars duty cycle is +/-78% I knew this is one large bullshit 320rwhp...

                Next day I took the car to the Dyno-Jet I always use and power was 292rwhp with 253rwtq.

                Hub dyno to tune, Dyno-Jet to see your real gains over factory stock power numbers.

                I have seen a lot of loaded S38s with fancy parts big valves, hi CR, ported head, camshafts, and yet make less power than my stock engine with camshafts and hi flow system.

                If I were you I would take your car to a DynoJet and see what power you will put down and start from there.

                Regards,
                Anri
                E30M3
                E28M5
                E24M6
                E24M6
                E24M6
                E24M6
                E31840Ci/S62.

                https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh...=dd&shelf_id=0

                Comment


                • #23
                  Thanks Anri for the thorough info, I will be doing something with headers and possibly eliminating the catalytic converter in a month or so.

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                  • #24
                    I'd like to know what physically was done wrong with the previous engine build, what problems it caused and how it could have been done better. This way we can all learn important stuff. Glad to hear it's running nicely and enjoy

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Z2TT View Post
                      I'd like to know what physically was done wrong with the previous engine build, what problems it caused and how it could have been done better. This way we can all learn important stuff. Glad to hear it's running nicely and enjoy
                      Agreed. I'm looking to have my S14 rebuilt. I reached out to Metric Mechanic and Jim Rowe called me on a Sunday evening. It was a very enjoyable conversation that lasted for about 1.5 hours. A lot of things he said made sense- building a lighter engine for greater HP and longevity. MM's warranty details don't immediately come to mind but surely they would have covered it? Unless it's a non-transferable warranty? In any case, inquiring minds would like to know more.

                      That's a great build fastricky!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        From Ty who did the rebuild:

                        A lot of it was due to improper clearances and machine work in the cylinder head. There also appear to be a piston to wall clearance issue (too tight).

                        They also used no-name brand rotating assembly parts from China.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Also here is the most recent dyno result (215hp at the wheels!)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SalmonM3 View Post
                            I reached out to Metric Mechanic and Jim Rowe called me on a Sunday evening. It was a very enjoyable conversation that lasted for about 1.5 hours. A lot of things he said made sense- building a lighter engine for greater HP and longevity

                            Hey Dan,

                            I am sure you will be in a good hands. Currently working on this bad boy baby...

                            Regads,
                            Anri.










                            E30M3
                            E28M5
                            E24M6
                            E24M6
                            E24M6
                            E24M6
                            E31840Ci/S62.

                            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh...=dd&shelf_id=0

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Good stuff, what were your camshafts timed at can you ask for optimal powerband?, if you are using adjustable gears?

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