CF intake alpha N tech

[Anri]

IACV valve deleted. If you pay attention to balancing the throttle bodies and getting the idle mixture correct, you will have no issues finding a steady idle.

Gents,

Why Idle Valve is deleted on most S14 with aftermarket EMS ? Is this a "Fashion" in S14-World ?


This tells me that S14-shops who install aftermarket EMS are not taking advantages from engine management.


Regards,
Anri

[HANDBLT]

I'm in the UK and have 284/284 2.3 (215 Head) and MAXX Alpha N with long trumpet carbon fibre intake. I do not use closed loop lambda control. I have 30,000 miles in this configuration with the IACV valve deleted. If you pay attention to balancing the throttle bodies and getting the idle mixture correct, you will have no issues finding a steady idle.

How tight was it tuned on open loop? Why not upgrade to WBO2 closed loop just for the piece of mind at high revs?

T

[HANDBLT]

Gents,

Why Idle Valve is deleted on most S14 with aftermarket EMS ? Is this a "Fashion" in S14-World ?


This tells me that S14-shops who install aftermarket EMS are not taking advantages from engine management.


Regards,
Anri

Mostly because the new EMS technology can do the same with internal compensations. Which is MUCH faster! When my engine's idle gets out of range, it will automatically compensate with ign advance, and or additional fueling, to steady the idle the same as the ICV would do, with the Motronic. Its just newer and better tech.

T

[HANDBLT]

I'm also running the Emtron SL6. The 'throttle area modeling' it has, is next level.....if the tuner knows it, and can tune it. I can't say enough about how my car runs and drives. Nick is the best of the best. Period. It runs and drives on the street like an OEM tuned it. Totally docile when it needs to be and totally a monster when you crack it open!

T

[Anri]

Mostly because the new EMS technology can do the same with internal compensations. Which is MUCH faster! When my engine's idle gets out of range, it will automatically compensate with ign advance, and or additional fueling, to steady the idle the same as the ICV would do, with the Motronic. Its just newer and better tech.

T

Tony,

I am only hearing from those with deleted idle valve including you to talk about drive-ability, cold start, throttle blip, take off, and everything from this long list... I am running Haltech (2500) and I have the ability to adjust what you are talking about as well. Most modern after market ECUs can provide what you are pointing.


I am not talking about the drive ability !!!! Nobody talks about the performance advantages to be had...

It does not matter how good the tuner is and how happy you are. Even if you bring F1 tuner he will still not be able to achieve the permanence I am hinting...

Weird, anyway moving forward.

Regards,
Anri.

[JimK]

as long as it has a good WBO2 closed loop system, this doesn't matter. It will compensate +/- around 10%

T

There is no correction during the O2 warm up time ??? It can't idle up nor handle transition with on/off for other power requirements like AC.

Unless the A/F target is changing for cold startup, the O2 correction will no achive enrichment, it will want to keep fuel as needed for the A/F target.

[HANDBLT]

Tony,

I am only hearing from those with deleted idle valve including you to talk about drive-ability, cold start, throttle blip, take off, and everything from this long list... I am running Haltech (2500) and I have the ability to adjust what you are talking about as well. Most modern after market ECUs can provide what you are pointing.


I am not talking about the drive ability !!!! Nobody talks about the performance advantages to be had...

It does not matter how good the tuner is and how happy you are. Even if you bring F1 tuner he will still not be able to achieve the permanence I am hinting...

Weird, anyway moving forward.

Regards,
Anri.

I understand all that, but all I know is the way Emtron has specific 'throttle area modeling' and not just a VE model like most, the software for this EMS has worked wonders. Just saying.

T

[HANDBLT]

There is no correction during the O2 warm up time ??? It can't idle up nor handle transition with on/off for other power requirements like AC.

Unless the A/F target is changing for cold startup, the O2 correction will no achive enrichment, it will want to keep fuel as needed for the A/F target.

There is a cold start compensation table that is target AFR based on CLT. I was lucky enough that the final tuning on my car it was in the 20's that morning so we got a good real world condition to tune to.

T

[hardtailer]

Tony,

I am only hearing from those with deleted idle valve including you to talk about drive-ability, cold start, throttle blip, take off, and everything from this long list... I am running Haltech (2500) and I have the ability to adjust what you are talking about as well. Most modern after market ECUs can provide what you are pointing.


I am not talking about the drive ability !!!! Nobody talks about the performance advantages to be had...

It does not matter how good the tuner is and how happy you are. Even if you bring F1 tuner he will still not be able to achieve the permanence I am hinting...

Weird, anyway moving forward.

Regards,
Anri.

So what are the performance benefits of the additional flow through the ICV?
Can't be much when looking at the cross section of the hoses to and from the ICV.

[sdshack]

Looking for a knowledgeable tech that can tune and install CF intake with alpha N. I'm in NY and willing to travel.
Mario from VSR1 is on the radar but would like other options since his scheduling is always jammed. thanks!

Personally wouldn’t recommend Mario/VSR for this. They did my CF intake install, Alpha N conversion, dyno tune, etc. as part of a bigger engine build and I’m still having issues from it all over a year later…

[pauliecarzz]

Would like to hear your feedback pm sent

[JimK]

So what are the performance benefits of the additional flow through the ICV?
Can't be much when looking at the cross section of the hoses to and from the ICV.

There isn't any power performance benefits to an ICV. They are set return to the position for initiation of idle speed control when the engine is off idle speed. That initial opening % on a hot engine depends where the manual (big screw valve) is set.

At cranking they are opened fully. To hold idle speed as targeted in a speed/temperature table the %open varies. On cold startup they will quickly drop to about 25% and close gradually as the engine coolant and oil warms.

It's main value is to turn the key no matter whether cold or hot and the engine starts never have to touch the throttle. Anyway, mine does.

[hardtailer]

Thanks, this is also my understanding.
As such curious to hear Anri's response as to what performance gains he attributes to the ICV

[RAD2LTR]

The only thing I see with the removal of the ICV is that another electronic part is removed from the system. I've been very tempted to try and remove mine even though I still have an AFM. I've been told that it won't run, but I've never tried. ICVs are known for going bad and frying the DME, so that right there tells me its a good idea to get rid of it if you can.

I'd have to guess setting up a set of ITBs without the ICV is like dialing a set of carbs in. Carbs don't need some electronic thing to keep the engine idling correctly. The coolant temp sender will say its cold, so the DME will enrich the mixture. The ITBs have idle bypass adjustments, so get those set, and everything balanced and it should run fine. If you are running AlphaN, then it shouldn't care if there is an ICV.

[jimmy p.]

The ITBs have idle bypass adjustments, so get those set, and everything balanced and it should run fine. If you are running AlphaN, then it shouldn't care if there is an ICV.

It doesnt care if you set it up like that (treat it like a set of carbs).
My tuner Neel Vasaveda is a proponent of keeping an ICV, but contrary to his suggestion I have had mine off for well over a decade on all my S14s.
The less "things" attached to my engine the better LOL.