Schroth 4pt harness pics

[uxoman]

Does anybody have installation pics of there schroth harnesses installed? Just wondering how others have mounted them. I did a search but no pics. Thanks.

[Mick]

Phil,
I just sent you an email with pics of my harnesses.

Are you installing these with a rollbar and race seats, or are these the Rallye type harnesses?

Gustave has some pics on his site as well.
http://www.e30m3performance.com/inst...lls-3/harness/

[JEDM3]

Phil,
I installed the 4pt belts in my car. Mine are the type that can unclip from the rear strap. I attached mine at the oem belt locations on front seats with the seats out. I also removed the rear seat and attached the shoulder portion to the oem seatbelt bolts under theseats. Sorry but no pics right now.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
John

[LeeVuong]

I have a word of caution regarding those Schroth 4-point harnesses. Even though they will feel good for a few minures, the lapbelt will never be tight enough under an impact. The driver will submarine and while the lap belt will go over the pelvis bones, it will severe the driver's internals.

Most clubs have banned this type of restraint at DEs.

[cramer]

The Schroth 4 point belt is no different in the lap belt design then your stock 3 point (mounts in the same spot). By your logic all stock seatbelts will severe the driver's internals. If you have some proof of such claims, I'm all ears, but have never seen anything about this and have never heard of club/organization banning 4 point Schroth belts.

[Mick]

4 point harnesses are a problem because, unlike stock belts, the sholder belts attach in front at the waist line. This can cause the sholder straps to pull the waist belt up off the pelvis. It's especially dangerous if they're not adjusted properly where the waist belt is too loose and sholder straps are too tight.

Schroth claims that their 4 point harness with the ASM sholder strap helps but they only prevent submarining and don't address the issue of the lap belt riding up. The only sure way to keep the lap belt down on the pelvis is a 5 or 6 point system.

[hardtailer]

Originally posted by cramer
The Schroth 4 point belt is no different in the lap belt design then your stock 3 point (mounts in the same spot). By your logic all stock seatbelts will severe the driver's internals.

it is different in the sense that the tension in the shoulder strap of your OEM belt will tighten the lap portion of the strap in case of an impact automatically as it is one piece.

[/christopher]

In addition, my understanding was also that the 3 point OEM allows some of your upper body to move forward, holding the rest of the belt in its proper place on your body. The 4 point holds your upper body from moving forward, so if your body has to move somewhere it will go down in the seat.

I would treat the cautions as valid, at least until enough people have proven them wrong!

[lazyass349]

correct me if i am wrong, as im no expert. But i thought i had read somewhere that Schroths were designed so that the shoulder belts would stretch to help prevent the whole submarining thing. This also made them DOT Approved. anyone know if thats true?

[Mick]

That's the Schroth ASM feature. Basically, one of the sholder belts has a breakaway section. On impact the inboard belt is supposed to break away releasing some slack. They claim it prevents the body from submarining.

From the Schroth notes:

ASM stands for Anti-SubMarining. It's an extra flap of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt that prevents you from sliding underneath the lap belt. In a 4 point harness made by some other company, the two shoulder straps restrain your upper body equally. They keep your chest from moving forward. However, this also pulls up on the lap belt and allows your accellerating pelvis to slide under the lap belt and cause serious damage to your stomach and intestines. With ASM, one of the shoulder belts will elongate at a different rate which will force your pelvis down into the seat cushion. Upon rebound, you will be placed back in an upright position with the belt correctly placed over your body.

FWIW. I personally wouldn't run a 4 point for anything more than an autocross

[LeeVuong]

I believe that those whon have had 4 points belts must have experienced the uncomfortable situation when after a short driving period the lap belt ends up as high as the driver's belly. Anything above the pelvis bones is dangerous.

As was stated, what is great with a 3-point restraint system is that the bigger the impact, the more pressure the torso applies on the shoulder belt, pulling even more on the lap belt. A tension that nobody is strong enough to apply by pulling Schroth lap belt buckle.

[fast325it]

The above comments may or may not be valid. Proper use of any harness system depends on many variables such as type of seat, harness attachment points, location of seat, user error, proper tensioning of harnesses while seated etc.

I use the 4 point system with my fixed back seat and see no way possible that I will submarine under the belt. I sit very low in the seat and the thigh support pads simply will not allow it. However, I will not use the 4 pt system with my stock seats as I can wiggle out of the harness regardless of how tight I manage to get the lower straps.

Also, on the track I am more concerned about a roll over or side impact than I am a direct frontal impact. I also use the 4 pt system specifically because they are street legal (I have been stopped and questioned in regards to the harnesses) as the factory belts do not allow for adequate support when used in conjunction with my fixed back seats.

JB

[hardtailer]

Originally posted by fast325it
...and the thigh support pads simply will not allow it...
JB

You'll be surprised what a couple of g's deceleration can do...

[/christopher]

A friend of mine was turned in the esses at Road Atlanta during the ARRC enduro, directly into the concrete wall alongside the track, and the car was about 4 feet shorter than it started. The frontal hit managed to break the rear swaybar in half. With a 5 point harness pulled tight he still managed to bend the top of the steering wheel with the front of his helmet. You could not imagine this being possible before witnessing the amount of force that must have stretched his neck. 6 months later he was still complaining of pain. All this from a 70mph hit. The forces in a crash are insane.

I don't mean to be rude, but it's rather cavalier to say that you will not submarine with a 4 point harness, when 5 points are designed to correct exactly that problem.

[LeeVuong]

There must be a reason for 4 point harnesses having been banned from racing 10 or 15 years ago.