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  • #31
    magnaflow parts are designed to slip over 2.5" piping so tig welding makes no difference, as the fabricator simply slips the piping into the cat or muffler and then welds up the outside. No butting of tubes (if they are bending them). If its multiple mandrel bent tubes then thats a different story for where those pieces connect. since i don't have a built 2.5 i was fine with crush bending as the turns were very simple and barely put a kink in them. im not going to throw tons of money at the project just to know its all perfectly round and high flowing if i have a cat anyway, and im not trying for first place in a race.
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    • #32
      OK - I've read this mustang thread twice now. What am I missing? Was I supposed to be convince of something here? Some guy says he's been present when dyno runs were done proving that one muffler was better than another (not sure which he said was best) and another guy's post with results from the ubiquitous "independent lab" tests. Granted, I'm not that bright but there's nothing there that changes my mind about anything.

      With regard to this special Flowmaster box, for that kind of money it wouldn't be a big deal to try one out. But keep in mind, its aluminized and that's one of the reasons why its affordable. It's also 14" so it will likely be loud. Then there's the bit about it not being suitable for a S14's 10.5:1 c/r. I think this box is really intended for muscle cars/big lazy V8's with low compression.

      Again, I think its possible to build an inexpensive system that flows better than the stock system, has reasonable sound levels, employs a CAT, and will have a reasonable lifespan. I personally wouldn't use this Flowmaster box b/c I don't think its suitable based on Flowmaster's own recommendation. But hey, that's me. Decide what value means to you...

      PaintPro - I think your system is great b/c it does what you wanted it to do. Would I do the same? No. But only b/c my design parameters are different.

      With regard to tips, the Borla box for our cars has 3" tips, so they do fit but it is tight. If you're going with a 2.5" system, I like what PaintPro and SacM3 did. Simple, cost effective, looks good to me but we're getting into very subjective territory here. I haven't figured out what I'm going to do for tips yet, mostly b/c I love DTM tips and no one makes a 3" single inlet DTM tip set.

      -Dietrich

      Originally posted by project86 View Post
      I found this stuff all on the web. Here is the cut and copy:
      All tests via an independent lab
      All tests @ 15 wc

      2 Straight Pipe 283 CFM
      2 Straight Pipe 365 CFM
      2 Straight Pipe 521 CFM

      2 Typical Bent tailpipe 268 CFM
      2 Typical Bent Tailpipe 417 CFM

      2 Inlet/Outlet Ultraflow Bullet 512 CFM
      2 Inlet/Outlet Hooker Max Flow 521 CFM
      2 Inlet/Outlet Borla Turbo 373 CFM
      2 1/2" Inlet/Outlet Magnaflow 284 CFM


      Standard OEM 2 Inlet/Outlet 138-152 CFM
      Standard OEM 2 Inlet/Outlet 161-197 CFM
      Here is the link, I am not sure where it originated from:
      http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...ufflers-2.html

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Dietrich View Post
        OK - I've read this mustang thread twice now. What am I missing? Was I supposed to be convince of something here? Some guy says he's been present when dyno runs were done proving that one muffler was better than another (not sure which he said was best) and another guy's post with results from the ubiquitous "independent lab" tests. Granted, I'm not that bright but there's nothing there that changes my mind about anything.

        With regard to this special Flowmaster box, for that kind of money it wouldn't be a big deal to try one out. But keep in mind, its aluminized and that's one of the reasons why its affordable. It's also 14" so it will likely be loud. Then there's the bit about it not being suitable for a S14's 10.5:1 c/r. I think this box is really intended for muscle cars/big lazy V8's with low compression.

        Again, I think its possible to build an inexpensive system that flows better than the stock system, has reasonable sound levels, employs a CAT, and will have a reasonable lifespan. I personally wouldn't use this Flowmaster box b/c I don't think its suitable based on Flowmaster's own recommendation. But hey, that's me. Decide what value means to you...

        PaintPro - I think your system is great b/c it does what you wanted it to do. Would I do the same? No. But only b/c my design parameters are different.

        With regard to tips, the Borla box for our cars has 3" tips, so they do fit but it is tight. If you're going with a 2.5" system, I like what PaintPro and SacM3 did. Simple, cost effective, looks good to me but we're getting into very subjective territory here. I haven't figured out what I'm going to do for tips yet, mostly b/c I love DTM tips and no one makes a 3" single inlet DTM tip set.

        -Dietrich
        Dietrich,

        Lucky for you the 2.25" Magnaflow tips can be trimmed until they reach the part where they start to expand into the two pipes. at this point they are actually 2.5" . This is what was done to make it work on my system. I was telling the fabricator the same thing and he said "I'll make it fit easily" and he did. and I do believe they ahve a dtm tip that is stainless. and luckily you'd have to cut back on it anyway since it would stick out so damn much if you didn't. lol

        http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/s...ne=main&id=703 same as width and ID as mine just dtm (thus longer)

        what are the parameters of your build? max flow, built motor, pure track...?
        Last edited by paintpro21; 01-21-2008, 07:19 PM. Reason: added link to part
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        • #34
          Originally posted by MikekiM View Post
          Richard's Performance Muffler in Vista did my work for me using Lee's flange.
          http://www.rpmmuffler.com/
          They do very good work there.
          Mike,
          It looks like you have some sort of sealant on the flange. What is that? I seem to have a little bit of an exhaust leak at the flange even with new gaskets, so I was thinking of adding a sealant. I'm concerned about being able to take it back apart though. Have you had any problems separating the flange due to the sealant?

          Thanks!
          Dominic

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          • #35
            Dominic - Good question. I was curious about that too.

            PaintPro - I'm doing a 3" system with cat, resonator and large rear box. My M3 needs to pass Colorado emissions and be 'street legal'. That said, its a 2.5L, with 290 KK cams, 50/50 header, 11:5.1 c/r, DTM airbox, Maxx, etc. I'm looking for max flow yet blowing clean and not sounding like a Honda. I'm likely giving up some HP with this formula but sound and emissions are important to me. Designing around limitations is far more rewarding than 'blank check' engineering IMHO.

            -Dietrich

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            • #36
              The Hooker max flow is not a Flowmaster and its not even the same design. The Max Flow is a better designed straight thru then a Magnaflow while a Flowmaster is a baffled/chambered muffler. The 2.5" Hooker Max Flow is all stainless (the one in the link I provided earlier), the rest of them are not, the 2.5" is the only one. As far as size, use 2 of them. The point is to build a system that flows to your needs. If you don't need 521 cfm then don't build a system for 521 cfm, if you do need 521 cfm, then you can get it with a 2.5" pipe and a Hooker Max Flow.
              1986 Mercedes 190e 2.3-16 Cosworth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JNJ-qVPBkU

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              • #37
                Interesting post on the flow throughput of the various mufflers.
                I have been using 2.5" Flowmaster 70 series for years on my track car.
                The 70 series is their 3 chamber box, slightly quieter than the 40 series and more closely sized to the stock E30 M3 muffler.

                When I called Flowmaster tech dept back when I was selecting a muffler to use when I switched to a single tube exhaust their tech recommended the 70 series and said it flowed "better" than the double chamber 40 series. Its been a while since I thought about all this, so my numbers may be a little off.
                The chart on the Mustanh thread has the 2 chamber outflowing the 3 chamber.

                I find it very interesting the Hooker muffler flowed almost double the 3 chamber Flowmaster.
                I am going to look into these Hooker mufflers. I am somewhat concerned about volume, even on my race car. If its too loud,,, I cant think... So I dont want it to be deafening.

                I am one of the guys who wouldn't really spend the big dough on an exhaust.
                Like a splitter,,, its just asking to get destroyed.
                I have a place they do simple crush bends, will do what I ask, I use plain old aluminized tubing, everything is slip fit and I use the Magnaflow band clamps.

                The amount and severity of bending needed to get an E3O M3 exhaust from header to muffler cutout are not that severe that I think welding mandrel bends is necessary. Its really a pretty straight shot with a few little bends in it to get it across the car.

                I think including the Flowmaster, I have maybe $300 in my whole system and its been on there since around 1998 and its still in good shape.
                Cheers
                jimmy p
                jimmy p.
                87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                04 Ford F350 - V10

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by project86 View Post
                  The Hooker max flow is not a Flowmaster and its not even the same design. The Max Flow is a better designed straight thru then a Magnaflow while a Flowmaster is a baffled/chambered muffler. The 2.5" Hooker Max Flow is all stainless (the one in the link I provided earlier), the rest of them are not, the 2.5" is the only one. As far as size, use 2 of them. The point is to build a system that flows to your needs. If you don't need 521 cfm then don't build a system for 521 cfm, if you do need 521 cfm, then you can get it with a 2.5" pipe and a Hooker Max Flow.
                  See, I told you I'm not that bright. When I mentioned Flowmaster I meant to say Hooker. My bad.

                  But still - I just took the time to find the Hooker catalog. (Hooker is a Holley brand). http://www.holley.com/data/Catalogs/Mufflers.pdf.

                  According to Holley's own catalog, this muffler is part SS and part aluminized and is intended for low c/r engines. Flows better? I need more than marketing copy to believe it. Again - I believe any straight-through perforated-tube muffler is going to flow virtually the same.

                  From the catalog:
                  "The Hooker Maximum Flow muffler actually flows 99% and produces more horsepower and torque than a 2-1/2 open pipe. The Maximum Flow is constructed of all aluminized and stainless steel and uses a high temperature packing material to absorb excessive noise while allowing a mellow powerful sound. As with all absorption type silencers, the Maximum Flow will be most effective for sound control with lower compression (8.5 to 1 and lower) motors with conservative camshafts and with applications using catalytic converter(s). The Maximum Flow flows either direction, allowing for easy installation."

                  Project86 - have you used this muffler on your S14? Do you know anyone who has? How about on a similar engine to the S14?

                  I don't want to get this out of perspective - if someone wants to try this muffler, go for it and let us know how it performs. As I said before, at $66 its worth a try. Based on the info from Holley/Hooker, I won't be trying it b/c I don't think its well suited to the S14. But that's me.

                  -Dietrich

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                  • #39
                    on the exhaust sealant-honda has a sealant that is rated up to 329deg celsius it is called ultra flange. I'm sure it would work.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Dougy Fresh View Post
                      on the exhaust sealant-honda has a sealant that is rated up to 329deg celsius it is called ultra flange. I'm sure it would work.
                      Does that sealant make the flange hard to separate?

                      Thanks!
                      Dominic

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                      • #41
                        I wouldnt think so, even if it did all you would have to do is use some heat to break it loose. How often do you connect and disconnect the exhaust there anyway? I work at a honda dealer and see the techs use it for various tasks like oil pan gaskets, exhaust gaskets.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Dougy Fresh View Post
                          I wouldnt think so, even if it did all you would have to do is use some heat to break it loose. How often do you connect and disconnect the exhaust there anyway? I work at a honda dealer and see the techs use it for various tasks like oil pan gaskets, exhaust gaskets.
                          It shouldn't need to come apart often, but for some reason lately I've had it apart several times...tranny bracket install, rear subframe r&r, and then muffler replacement.

                          Thanks for the info Doug.
                          Dominic

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                          • #43
                            So is your setup going to be a permanent cat or will you be pulling it out? If I were to do it again I would get one of those cherry bomb shaped resonators and install it before the main muffler. as my car at idle can clearly be heard from any room in the house with the current setup. All the guys at Edge Motorworks that trailor their cars and run tig welded titanium exhausts, even install these small resonators to take out some of that extra noise. I need to come up with something else for the tips because there is no way my setup will pass the db limit at Laguna.
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                            • #44
                              I"m not sure what sealant it is, as the muffler shop put it in. We have since separated it without any difficulty at all.
                              Michael
                              www.purems.com | Temecula, CA | 866-397-5487

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                              • #45
                                I have not used a Hooker Max Flow. There are a lot of factors that go into exhaust design, but the Max Flow is one of the few mufflers online that I have found flow numbers for. Most mufflers don't list the cfm, and for me this is important, I want to know what I am getting. I really wish that companies would list flow numbers, although I realize this would be counterproductive as most mufflers are sold on sound and not on their performance gains.

                                Dietrich,
                                It sounds like you have a very very nice motor and I hope that you find an exhaust suitable for your car. Good luck.
                                1986 Mercedes 190e 2.3-16 Cosworth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JNJ-qVPBkU

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