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  • pete98m3
    replied
    uh, my feelings on this are that...

    building the motor is not the most important part of building a competent track car. you could put a 700 horse motor in it and it would still drive you nuts if you didn't have the brakes and suspension to handle it first.

    that said, what do you plan to do with this? for real racing your gonna need cage, fuel cell, fire system, driving gear, and other stuff that eats up a lot of $$ just on safety stuff.

    if you really plan to be competitive a set of street springs and shocks aren't gonna cut it, your gonna want to run a set of JRZ or penksi, moton, something like that coilovers. these are $$$. your gonna need at least 2, maybe 3 or 4 sets of wheels and tires, different gear sets, different ring and pinions are the easiest to change... springs, wings, airdams, spares...

    i have a buddy who has almost 20k in spare parts for his fC, just in different wings, springs, gears, wheels, shocks, etc. these aren't "spares" they are neccessary to set the car up for different tracks.

    a stock motor will get you from turn a to turn b and let you have a lot of fun, if you want it to last a fresh one would be helpful. after that, put maybe some hot cams in it to increase the fun factor a bit, and spend your money on the neccessities first.

    for 20k total i would do this:

    cheap e30 m3

    gut it, plexi windows are a cheap place to save some weight and you don't have to worry about spending $$ on paint.

    buy a really good set of coilovers, FULLY adjustable... make sure the springs they use are a generic size so you can get different rates in case you get more serious later.

    buy a set of camber plates for a start, if you get more serious & as your setup skills increase think about adjustable A arms.

    buy a real drivers seat, and at least a 4 point cage. driving out of the stock seat and 3 point harness is a joke.

    for starters just buy a set of really good track pads, if you add more horsepower see about upgrading the brakes within the class rules

    buy an extra set of wheels with real track tires.

    freshen the motor

    that will cost 20 grand total probably, and will give you an e30 that is good to drive, balenced over all not just motor and no suspension...

    if you decided to spend more later, here are some suggestions

    power - always fun.

    aerodynamics... wings and things, helpfull at real tracks, but a real front airdam will kill your streetability in a heartbeat.

    go to a fully welded in cage, extend it through the firewall to the shock towers, weld tubing in between the two shock towers as a strut tower brace... much more effective.

    gears... regear tranny for track use, tall 1st gear for hairpins and short ratios thereafter... extra R&P's for different tracks... a real limited slip...

    the list goes on and on... but those are some basics.


    as for the evo 8...

    they aren't actually ALL that neutral, ours will rotate if you trail brake it like a madman, but pretty much no matter what you do on exit its gonna push, on long sweepers (like at vegas raceway the 270 degree sweeper) push like mad... the stock brake pads are garbage..

    ours put down 240.7 whp stock @ 5000 ft altitude 91 octane, 306 whp same day with 3" turbo back, blitz filter, and an apex'i afr...

    i'll let you know how it does next tim eat the track when we finish installing our new cusco rear sway, tien coilovers, chasis braces, and the extra set of enkie's with hoosiers...

    it would be faster if it was lighter and RWD only, the awd is unneccesary on the track.


    the stock suspension is ok, not great. the damping is very good, but the spring rates are low. there is a lot of bodyroll if you look at an action picture.

    an new evo set up as a weekend warrior track car like ours is, will probably still run you 40+ k


    if you have any more questions just email me [email protected] i can give you a better run down of what it would take for what levels of racing etc etc, i run formula atlantics in scca and shifter karts, my dad runs a gt3 cup car in pca.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewT(Do not do business with me).
    replied
    Originally posted by OPTIMO
    Noted suggestion, however I enjoy having a team to root for. I follow F1 religiously and WRC as well. If I was to buy a rally-type car they would still need to compete - and Mitsu doesn't. Subaru on the other hand.

    The EVO VIII is a great car for the money but I think it's ugly, ugliest Evo ever in my opinion. The wing, the taillights, it's just ugly. That's the same reason I won't buy a 944, ugly. I know it doesn't matter what the car looks like, it's how it drives - but I want attractive cars in my driveway. Now a 6.5 TOMMI on the other hand. . .

    I've always wanted a 993 and an E30 M3 (as well as the M6 and E34 M5). The M3 seems to be the most reasonable at this stage of my life (25) and I just wanted to verify that with a 20k budget I can build a nice dedicated track car that will be a contender.

    I keep making additional payments on my E46 trying to pay her off as quickly as possible. Although I need to buy some new tires for the next autox season which starts in January, so that will hold me back for a minute.

    E30 M3s are a piece of history and you never read a bad review. I've arranged with a local guy to hopefully get a ride along in one soon and make sure that I'm headed down the right path. If it's not going to be an E30 M3, it's going to be an older P-Car. An STI is tempting, very tempting - but I'm not sure how reliable a modded turbo car will be in the long run after heavy track abuse - which is my sole intention.
    All I have to say is go drive one

    The looks grow on you. They did me anyway.

    Andrew

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironhead
    replied
    $20K? come on guys, you are letting other people do too much of the work.
    I think your price on head porting was low. I went the Turner Stage III route and paid $2500.

    You left out oil squirters, which the guy mentioned using, for about $1200.

    He will probably need an EVO block if he is using squirters, another $1800.

    While not strictly part of the rebuild, most people would install a new clutch...another $300 at least. Who can go without a lightweight flywheel?.....$500.

    Things are made cheaper if you stick with the stock header. I went the EVO III route, so then needed a new exhaust system to match the header flange. That whole thing was a $3000 adventure.

    Most people would be wise to do new engine/tranny mounts while everything is apart.....another $200 or so.

    I am not saying it is absolutely essential to wind up spending $20K, just that it is very easy. And to spend much less will involve some corner cutting.

    Leave a comment:


  • OPTIMO
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewT
    $40k?

    This one's easy. Forget the 993.

    Take $30k go down to the Mitsu dealer. Write 'em a check for an Evo8.

    Stop there, or...spend another $2-3k on exhaust and remapping, and you've got 375-400 reliable HP.

    It already has a momo steering wheel and Recaro Sports. 2-turns lock to lock on the steering rack.

    And AWD kicks @ss. Don't worry about the front driven wheels, this thing will rotate all day long.

    The suspension is remarkable. Honestly, If I wasn't going to develop parts for this car to market, I wouldn't touch a thing. It's that good.

    So you've got $6-7k left for beer and hookers.

    Andrew
    '88M3 300+hp/2100lbs
    '95 Projekt E36
    '01 F250 Powerstroke
    '02 Haulmark 24'er
    '03 Lancer Evo8
    '79 German 635CSi
    '95M3-US: parting
    Noted suggestion, however I enjoy having a team to root for. I follow F1 religiously and WRC as well. If I was to buy a rally-type car they would still need to compete - and Mitsu doesn't. Subaru on the other hand.

    The EVO VIII is a great car for the money but I think it's ugly, ugliest Evo ever in my opinion. The wing, the taillights, it's just ugly. That's the same reason I won't buy a 944, ugly. I know it doesn't matter what the car looks like, it's how it drives - but I want attractive cars in my driveway. Now a 6.5 TOMMI on the other hand. . .

    I've always wanted a 993 and an E30 M3 (as well as the M6 and E34 M5). The M3 seems to be the most reasonable at this stage of my life (25) and I just wanted to verify that with a 20k budget I can build a nice dedicated track car that will be a contender.

    I keep making additional payments on my E46 trying to pay her off as quickly as possible. Although I need to buy some new tires for the next autox season which starts in January, so that will hold me back for a minute.

    E30 M3s are a piece of history and you never read a bad review. I've arranged with a local guy to hopefully get a ride along in one soon and make sure that I'm headed down the right path. If it's not going to be an E30 M3, it's going to be an older P-Car. An STI is tempting, very tempting - but I'm not sure how reliable a modded turbo car will be in the long run after heavy track abuse - which is my sole intention.

    Leave a comment:


  • HANDBLT
    replied
    Originally posted by mrsha007
    mike, TB's go for pretty good prices here and there now. mariano just pick some up for cheap. i already ahve the cam gears. i dont need the evo afm, i have a link unit already. headers im not too worried about for now, im more focusing in on buy stuff that i need to take the head off for. i over looked the timing chain and the two pumps. that will put the motor work into the 20k range . but i also get a FATTTT discount. i will ahve to wait and see. 500 for the valve work i ment the valves themselves, the head work i have calculated for about 1600 from apex. i am only at about 85k on the motor, so i ahve a good while to go until i need any kind of work done, so it gives me a while to save up and collect parts. BTW, i ahve found rods and pistons for about those prices.
    $20K? come on guys, you are letting other people do too much of the work.

    2.5chip 250
    airbox, 48's, grp a injectors 2500
    MAXX 800
    cams 800
    gears 400
    porting/seals/seats 500
    block 1500
    crank 900
    pistons 600
    gaskets/hoses/misc 800
    timing parts 500
    pumps 300

    $10,300.......... where is the other $10K? I have never understood the $20K engine number that is thrown around. Now if you are going insane on the head with all Grp A Stuff maybe, but not for a normal 275-300hp 2.5l.

    T

    Leave a comment:


  • mrsha007
    replied
    Originally posted by EVOIIIM3
    Tb's used? There usually $2000+
    Oil squirters are closer to $1500
    Pistons are around $900
    Rods, stock? Pauter, $800
    What kind of valve work? $500 is no much.

    The block will come with stock pistons, but the CR is to low for good power and those cams.

    Don't forget.....
    Timing chain assembly...
    Header
    Fuel Injectors
    EVO AFM/MAF?
    Chip
    Adjustable cam gears
    Oil pump
    All new gaskets
    Water pump
    etc....

    It's the little things that bite your wallet in the ass!
    mike, TB's go for pretty good prices here and there now. mariano just pick some up for cheap. i already ahve the cam gears. i dont need the evo afm, i have a link unit already. headers im not too worried about for now, im more focusing in on buy stuff that i need to take the head off for. i over looked the timing chain and the two pumps. that will put the motor work into the 20k range . but i also get a FATTTT discount. i will ahve to wait and see. 500 for the valve work i ment the valves themselves, the head work i have calculated for about 1600 from apex. i am only at about 85k on the motor, so i ahve a good while to go until i need any kind of work done, so it gives me a while to save up and collect parts. BTW, i ahve found rods and pistons for about those prices.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ironhead
    replied
    what do you guys think of those numbers? thats basicly what ive seen from shopping around. they are rough estimates.
    I find myself smiling when I read your tally, because I went through exactly the same thing when I was planning my motor. My build specs were very similar.

    Best advice I can give you, is take your figures, total them, then double or triple it. Most of the prices you quoted are low (at least a lot less than I paid) and all sorts of other things come up. You are building a new expensive motor, and suddenly you will find you don't want to cut corners with all the old pieces that were fine with your old engine. Hoses, seals, gaskets, mounts, clutch, flywheel, exhaust, the list goes on and on. I did manage to save some money by getting an EVO AFM cheap at a junkyard, and I bought 48mm TBs and EVO injectors used from Markus which saved some money.

    I have been scared to total all my receipts, but I assure you I spent WAY more than I intended to, and way more than most people quote for a 2.5 rebuild.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewT(Do not do business with me).
    replied
    I was going to add that the word is that to run the hotter Schrick 292 on the intake, you have to use the shim under buckets.

    I don't have direct experience with this cam, but an English friend engine builder tells me that years ago that cam was in the Schrick catalog (as a street cam) and it was taken out because the aggressive profile kicked the shims off the bucket.

    BTW, I might have 8 spare shim under buckets (Genuine Motorsport, not Schrick) for sale, inquire if interested.

    Andrew

    Leave a comment:


  • EVOIIIM3
    replied
    Originally posted by mrsha007
    i
    Future Motor Work:
    Schrick 292/284 cams 900
    48mm TB's 1500
    2.5 Crank 600
    2.5 Block 2000
    Squirters 600
    Pistons 600
    Rods 400
    Head work 1600
    labor 2500
    valve springs 500
    Valve work 500
    Tb's used? There usually $2000+
    Oil squirters are closer to $1500
    Pistons are around $900
    Rods, stock? Pauter, $800
    What kind of valve work? $500 is no much.

    The block will come with stock pistons, but the CR is to low for good power and those cams.

    Don't forget.....
    Timing chain assembly...
    Header
    Fuel Injectors
    EVO AFM/MAF?
    Chip
    Adjustable cam gears
    Oil pump
    All new gaskets
    Water pump
    etc....

    It's the little things that bite your wallet in the ass!

    Leave a comment:


  • mrsha007
    replied
    i am where you are. somewhat. im building up a nice weekend event car. I am about to get some cams and start buying parts for my motor rebuild. here si the numbers i have so far:

    Future Motor Work:
    Schrick 292/284 cams 900
    48mm TB's 1500
    2.5 Crank 600
    2.5 Block 2000
    Squirters 600
    Pistons 600
    Rods 400
    Head work 1600
    labor 2500
    valve springs 500
    Valve work 500

    what do you guys think of those numbers? thats basicly what ive seen from shopping around. they are rough estimates.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve88M3
    replied
    Sucks to the evo.


    Get a 964 Porsche and make your very own RS Clubsport.


    But get an E30 M3.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewT(Do not do business with me).
    replied
    $40k?

    This one's easy. Forget the 993.

    Take $30k go down to the Mitsu dealer. Write 'em a check for an Evo8.

    Stop there, or...spend another $2-3k on exhaust and remapping, and you've got 375-400 reliable HP.

    It already has a momo steering wheel and Recaro Sports. 2-turns lock to lock on the steering rack.

    And AWD kicks @ss. Don't worry about the front driven wheels, this thing will rotate all day long.

    The suspension is remarkable. Honestly, If I wasn't going to develop parts for this car to market, I wouldn't touch a thing. It's that good.

    So you've got $6-7k left for beer and hookers.

    Andrew
    '88M3 300+hp/2100lbs
    '95 Projekt E36
    '01 F250 Powerstroke
    '02 Haulmark 24'er
    '03 Lancer Evo8
    '79 German 635CSi
    '95M3-US: parting

    Leave a comment:


  • Magnus
    replied
    Originally posted by EVOIIIM3
    Now as being a rewarding fun car, just go drive one, even a totally stock one is a ton of fun! There is just something magical about them.
    The "magical" is a great quote!

    Leave a comment:


  • EVOIIIM3
    replied
    There not really heavy cars stock, to remove weight....

    Remove AC, all trunk stuff, all interior stuff, racing seats, Some CF or FG body parts and you will be light. But if you want to compete with it, you have to stay with in the rules.

    The handling will be awesome with just about anything you do as a matched setup. I can do over 1.25gs on street tires!

    Now the engine, 300hp is easy to get, but will cost you.

    now with out any "hook ups" , it's around $17k in parts. But you will have a super fast bullet proof engine. I still have a few things left to do on mine to hopefully get another 2-5% out of it. I have to break the 200ft-lbs at the wheel mark.

    I know there is always a debate on the price of a 300hp 2.5l street motor, but to my knowledge I'm the only one around to actually have one and do it.

    Now as being a rewarding fun car, just go drive one, even a totally stock one is a ton of fun! There is just something magical about them.

    Leave a comment:


  • ///TILTED
    replied
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking the E30 M3 and gutting it for the track. Just save the interior and be sure to think things through before you do something permanent.

    Personally I think gutted cars with race seats and rollbars are crazy good.

    Leave a comment:

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