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  • Ways to lighten weight without bastardizing

    Gentlemen,

    My E46 shall be paid off in another year or so and I would like to purchase a dedicated track car. At first I was going to get a 993, but it looks like there will be some life-changing bonds so I'm guessing another $600 car payment isn't wise for awhile.

    I've decided to buy me other dream car, the E30 M3. However I'm already having qualms. I was really looking for a car with c.300bhp however, the steering feel/handling/sound/experience of the E30 M is unlike any other.

    My car will be used for auto-x and track events with limited street driving (the random Sunday morning cruise perhaps). I want a clean M with a solid engine and as mint of an exterior as can be expected.

    Is it a sin to rip out the interior? I was wondering if there are some LTW options - like the E36 guys have with LTW door panels, boot, et cetera. The only mods I plan on making is a lighter weight, all the necessary safety equipment, set of track wheels/tires and seat time. I'll sort out the springs/shocks later as well as any necessary brake upgrades.

    Should I look for a less than perfect M in the sub 10k range? Since my original budget was going to be around 40 or so for a 993, if I can get away with half with a car and pretty much set with a track setup, I would be very pleased. I've done a search and read through everything but there were only a couple of descriptive threads about reducing weight.

    Please advise at your convenience. I know it may be wrong to buy a near mint E30 M3 if I just want to track it, but it's the best looking M3 ever, and I want it to look the part.

    I also have all intentions of beating my friend's early 80s SC P-Car. :p
    Last edited by OPTIMO; 11-15-2003, 04:16 PM.
    www.ubertechnik.com

  • #2
    Stripping the car = Sin? Then call me a sinner. If it's going to be a track car / auto x car, why do you need ac/radio/carpet/heavy seats

    There are options out there to put your car on a diet! CF parts are out there but will cost you some. Lightweight wheels will help out a lot as well.

    One idea is to not buy a near mint M3 but one that needs somewhat of work. Depends on how much time and money you plan to put into your car.

    IF you are looking for a 300hp S14 motor, then be prepared to run hot cams,head work, aftermarket engine mangement system with misc. items. You can probably do this with a 2.3L but it wouldn't hurt to add some torque with a 2.5L upgrade. THEN again you can go the Alex McHenry way and go with an E36 M3 (US) motor with some mild cams / engine work and have 300hp easy. This would change your weight distrubution but some will argue not enough to notice.
    Last edited by Bavarian3; 11-15-2003, 06:14 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh boy! I wish I were in your shoes! I love starting projects.

      $40K....

      $10k for an 'ok' E30 M3

      $15 - 20k for a nice wild 2.5L (300hp easy for this kind of cash)

      $3k for a complete suspension upgrade

      What you've got left over can go towards light weight body work and interior upgrades. Throw a track wheel & tire combo on there too.

      Botta-bing botta-boom! You've got yourself a 300hp sub 2600 scream'n demon that'll kick a lot of tail!!

      Cheers,
      Jake Larsen

      Comment


      • #4
        for 300+ real and reliable hp in S14 Im not so sure
        thats enough money but it will be more fun than your
        garden variety engine swap. if engine swap it is, then
        get something with multiple throttles so you can
        install an airbox
        John

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow, thanks for the quick replies. I should have clarified however.

          I was going to spend $40k on a 993 - the only other car that keeps me up at night and makes me get whiplash when I see one, but I will most likely be moving/buying a house/possibly doing the M word in a couple of years. Therefore, I want to spend $20k instead. $40k budget for an E30 M3 would probably make me never want a 993, but if I can keep my initial budget around $20k for an M3 with the usual annual mod/tire budget that I have right now, I would be a very happy camper.

          The 993 purchase isn't getting scrapped, just delayed maybe 4-5 years, but who knows, by that time I might be so knee deep in the E30 M3 that I just want to keep making her better.

          Well, the reason I asked if it was a sin is because there are very limited #s of these cars and I'm not sure if it would be terrible to buy one in good condition only to gut it. My main concerns are engine and exterior. I want it to look beautiful, like I picture it every day in my head. I also wouldn't do an engine swap unless the S14 had issues and it proved more cost efficient to do the E36 M3 swap (although, then can you put an AA kit on the e36 m3 motor....:idea: ).

          Right know I'm thinking:

          $10-13k E30 M3
          $3k suspension
          $3k wheels/tires
          $4-$6 engine mods

          I wasn't including track fees in my budget. I would like to keep the first year or so's budget around $20k, because then I'm saving money over a 993 purchase. I figure with 20k I have an M3 I should be happy with, then spend the next 2-3 years sorting the car out at the track.

          Not to mention I feel like a 993 C2S is me really settling because I would kill for a TT. So maybe I'll wait until I can afford one of those, although they are AWD.

          I thank you guys for your knowledge. I've been reading non-stop for awhile and just trying to make sure it's feasible to get something I like for my budget.

          Although, anything has to be more nimble than this:
          Last edited by OPTIMO; 11-16-2003, 04:00 AM.
          www.ubertechnik.com

          Comment


          • #6
            I think you have your numbers mixed up a bit:

            $10-13k E30 M3
            $3k suspension
            $3k wheels/tires
            $4-$6 engine mods
            ----------------


            $5-11k E30 M3
            $Unless you have your own corner weighing system and need to tune your coil-overs for each and every track, your looking at under $2k for suspension, if your upgrading 'everything'.
            $4-6k engine mods? That depends on your engine. You can do a strong (stock) 2.3L reduild for around $5k. Then you will have $1k left over to do some 'mods'. I would change the number around to $10-$13k for engine mods.

            --------------------

            You can keep the car under $20k but that depends on the car and what type of work you want on your car. I would get used to the car stock and then work your way up, that way you know what will work and what won't works.

            Forgot to say: Welcome to S14.net. Enjoy your stay.
            Last edited by Bavarian3; 11-16-2003, 07:31 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking the E30 M3 and gutting it for the track. Just save the interior and be sure to think things through before you do something permanent.

              Personally I think gutted cars with race seats and rollbars are crazy good.
              I am stationary at forty miles an hour.
              ///Mark Dowst

              Comment


              • #8
                There not really heavy cars stock, to remove weight....

                Remove AC, all trunk stuff, all interior stuff, racing seats, Some CF or FG body parts and you will be light. But if you want to compete with it, you have to stay with in the rules.

                The handling will be awesome with just about anything you do as a matched setup. I can do over 1.25gs on street tires!

                Now the engine, 300hp is easy to get, but will cost you.

                now with out any "hook ups" , it's around $17k in parts. But you will have a super fast bullet proof engine. I still have a few things left to do on mine to hopefully get another 2-5% out of it. I have to break the 200ft-lbs at the wheel mark.

                I know there is always a debate on the price of a 300hp 2.5l street motor, but to my knowledge I'm the only one around to actually have one and do it.

                Now as being a rewarding fun car, just go drive one, even a totally stock one is a ton of fun! There is just something magical about them.

                Do not click
                At least it's German

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by EVOIIIM3
                  Now as being a rewarding fun car, just go drive one, even a totally stock one is a ton of fun! There is just something magical about them.
                  The "magical" is a great quote!


                  Disclaimer: Remember, I know absolutely nothing, but it doesn't prevent me from having an opinion or suggestion. :

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    $40k?

                    This one's easy. Forget the 993.

                    Take $30k go down to the Mitsu dealer. Write 'em a check for an Evo8.

                    Stop there, or...spend another $2-3k on exhaust and remapping, and you've got 375-400 reliable HP.

                    It already has a momo steering wheel and Recaro Sports. 2-turns lock to lock on the steering rack.

                    And AWD kicks @ss. Don't worry about the front driven wheels, this thing will rotate all day long.

                    The suspension is remarkable. Honestly, If I wasn't going to develop parts for this car to market, I wouldn't touch a thing. It's that good.

                    So you've got $6-7k left for beer and hookers.

                    Andrew
                    '88M3 300+hp/2100lbs
                    '95 Projekt E36
                    '01 F250 Powerstroke
                    '02 Haulmark 24'er
                    '03 Lancer Evo8
                    '79 German 635CSi
                    '95M3-US: parting

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sucks to the evo.


                      Get a 964 Porsche and make your very own RS Clubsport.


                      But get an E30 M3.
                      1988 M3
                      2012 335is
                      1993 Civic Si

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i am where you are. somewhat. im building up a nice weekend event car. I am about to get some cams and start buying parts for my motor rebuild. here si the numbers i have so far:

                        Future Motor Work:
                        Schrick 292/284 cams 900
                        48mm TB's 1500
                        2.5 Crank 600
                        2.5 Block 2000
                        Squirters 600
                        Pistons 600
                        Rods 400
                        Head work 1600
                        labor 2500
                        valve springs 500
                        Valve work 500

                        what do you guys think of those numbers? thats basicly what ive seen from shopping around. they are rough estimates.
                        "Just road, seat, ASS; THE END!" - Jeremy Clarkson
                        "If you had a choice between a million dollars and world peace, what would you get for your E30 M3?" - ItsNotTheNissan
                        onfirelabs.com twitter.com/suga_shane

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mrsha007
                          i
                          Future Motor Work:
                          Schrick 292/284 cams 900
                          48mm TB's 1500
                          2.5 Crank 600
                          2.5 Block 2000
                          Squirters 600
                          Pistons 600
                          Rods 400
                          Head work 1600
                          labor 2500
                          valve springs 500
                          Valve work 500
                          Tb's used? There usually $2000+
                          Oil squirters are closer to $1500
                          Pistons are around $900
                          Rods, stock? Pauter, $800
                          What kind of valve work? $500 is no much.

                          The block will come with stock pistons, but the CR is to low for good power and those cams.

                          Don't forget.....
                          Timing chain assembly...
                          Header
                          Fuel Injectors
                          EVO AFM/MAF?
                          Chip
                          Adjustable cam gears
                          Oil pump
                          All new gaskets
                          Water pump
                          etc....

                          It's the little things that bite your wallet in the ass!

                          Do not click
                          At least it's German

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I was going to add that the word is that to run the hotter Schrick 292 on the intake, you have to use the shim under buckets.

                            I don't have direct experience with this cam, but an English friend engine builder tells me that years ago that cam was in the Schrick catalog (as a street cam) and it was taken out because the aggressive profile kicked the shims off the bucket.

                            BTW, I might have 8 spare shim under buckets (Genuine Motorsport, not Schrick) for sale, inquire if interested.

                            Andrew

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              what do you guys think of those numbers? thats basicly what ive seen from shopping around. they are rough estimates.
                              I find myself smiling when I read your tally, because I went through exactly the same thing when I was planning my motor. My build specs were very similar.

                              Best advice I can give you, is take your figures, total them, then double or triple it. Most of the prices you quoted are low (at least a lot less than I paid) and all sorts of other things come up. You are building a new expensive motor, and suddenly you will find you don't want to cut corners with all the old pieces that were fine with your old engine. Hoses, seals, gaskets, mounts, clutch, flywheel, exhaust, the list goes on and on. I did manage to save some money by getting an EVO AFM cheap at a junkyard, and I bought 48mm TBs and EVO injectors used from Markus which saved some money.

                              I have been scared to total all my receipts, but I assure you I spent WAY more than I intended to, and way more than most people quote for a 2.5 rebuild.

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