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New Clutchmaster/JB Racing Kit. Annoying problem...anybody else???

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  • New Clutchmaster/JB Racing Kit. Annoying problem...anybody else???

    So, I'm trying to finish up the turbo conversion on my S14. To handle the extra power I decided to go with one of Bimmerworld's specials, an 8 pound JB Racing flywheel and a stage IV Clutchmaster ceramic clutch (500 hp rating).

    To make a long story short, one of the best BMW mechanics in my area installed everything for me. When I took it out for the first check ride, I immediately noticed a metallic resonance at 2500 rpm, steady-state. There was no vibration, just a loud noise throughout the cabin sounding like the exhaust rubbing on the chassis. Even more prevalent was the noise while decelerating between 2500 and 3500 rpm. My car is loud already, with a 2.5 motor and a custom 3" exhaust, but this vibrating noise is twice as loud as my car normally is. A long drive with lots of time spent on the overrun would definitely require ear muffs...

    Obviously, we spent time troubleshooting, looking for interference with the exhaust and other components, but everything looked perfect and the clutch action is fine too. Bimmerworld said they have never heard of this problem and Clutchmasters first blamed it on the flywheel, saying that I should expect that going from a dual-mass flywheel to an 8-pounder (the S14 doesn't have a f***ing dual-mass flywheel). Then, I call a Clutchmasters dealer in Portland, OR. He says that Clutchmasters clutches perform really well, but he has run into resonance problems several times before. For example, the clutch for the 4-cyl SRT-4 resonates on decel bad enough that he warns potential customers before selling it to them. Inzyi on this forum also had a very similar resonance experience that was solved after replacing the clutch with a Sachs.

    Now I'm stuck yanking everything apart again to check out the clutch. Clutchmasters are willing to look at it, but with their "it's never happened before, so it can't be true now" attitude I'm afraid of getting screwed and having to pay for install a *third* time.

    Has anyone else experienced what I've described?

    Would you trust a company again that seem really unwilling to consider a potential problem with their product?

    Does anyone have a recommendation for another (500 hp) clutch that's tried-and-true on our cars?

    In Scandinavia, the Sachs 618 pressure plate and 4, 6, or 8 puck sinters seem to be the hot setup. Does anyone have any experience with these?

    Any and all feedback about how to resolve this matter is appreciated!
    Anders

    "Objects in mirror are losing..."

  • #2
    I have the JB 8lb. and stage III clutchmasters. No problems..installed it myself.

    The only noise is at a light with the clutch out. Typical ltw flywheel noise (slight knocking of tranny).
    Pat

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    • #3
      A soundfile (mp3) to illustrate the problem:
      clutch_noise.mp3
      Last edited by Anders; 03-10-2008, 08:29 PM.
      Anders

      "Objects in mirror are losing..."

      Comment


      • #4
        WoW...that sound is excatly the same as mine!!!

        i have a 1991 318i, fully restored and i put in a jb Racing 8lb flywheel with a stock clutch and pressure plate though. when i first drove it on the highway, comin down from 3700-2500 it makes that fine noise. now i havnt drove it since last year but i check for metal touching and i didnt find a thing. i only soultion i thought of was the flywheel. i dont believe that they fully balance the Jb Racing flywheels, do they?

        if not, then i will have to take out the flywheel and send it out to get balanced and hope that it is the problem.
        The E30 M3 Renewed ~ Rebuilt ~ Re-engineered

        www.ZeppieriMotorsport.com

        E30 M3 Rebuild Thread

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        • #5
          When building a motor or installing parts that have to do with rotational forces you should try to have them high speed dynamic balanced... I got that same type noise with a VW and it was the clutch/flywheel out of balance. I try to balance everything from the crank pulley to the flywheel together. Good to see your project taking shape Anders... It's alive, it's alive!
          Rich!

          Comment


          • #6
            (LOL) I know this sound. This is the sound of a metallic clutch with an unsprung hub. Or in the case of my Tilton Dual Disc, two unsprung hubs. It sounds like an annoying exhaust rattle, but it's typical for this type of clutch.

            I doubt you are going to find anything wrong with it. It's just the nature of the beast.
            2003 Mitsu EVO VIII - 2.0L / 600+whp
            1988 BMW M3 turbo - Work in progress. . .
            1986 SVO Mustang - Work in progress. . .

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, I'm bummed, because my clutch has a sprung hub and a marcel spring in it. Maybe the ceramic pucks act like metallic ones you're mentioning, Ted. Either way I'm not sure I can put up with it 'cause it's LOUD. I don't know if the volume really comes through on that sound clip...

              I called PPF in Sweden last night. They gave me some good suggestions for options last night...

              Anyway, here's my car on a good day:
              having_fun.mp3


              - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - AUTOMERGED! There's no thread "bumping" or "double posting" within a 24hr period. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


              Originally posted by JOEBMW View Post
              WoW...that sound is excatly the same as mine!!!

              i have a 1991 318i, fully restored and i put in a jb Racing 8lb flywheel with a stock clutch and pressure plate though. when i first drove it on the highway, comin down from 3700-2500 it makes that fine noise. now i havnt drove it since last year but i check for metal touching and i didnt find a thing. i only soultion i thought of was the flywheel. i dont believe that they fully balance the Jb Racing flywheels, do they?

              if not, then i will have to take out the flywheel and send it out to get balanced and hope that it is the problem.
              JB Racing does balance their flywheels...


              - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - AUTOMERGED! There's no thread "bumping" or "double posting" within a 24hr period. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


              Originally posted by ///schwartzman View Post
              When building a motor or installing parts that have to do with rotational forces you should try to have them high speed dynamic balanced... I got that same type noise with a VW and it was the clutch/flywheel out of balance. I try to balance everything from the crank pulley to the flywheel together. Good to see your project taking shape Anders... It's alive, it's alive!
              A few more weeks and it really will live!!
              Last edited by Anders; 03-11-2008, 06:09 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
              Anders

              "Objects in mirror are losing..."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ///schwartzman View Post
                When building a motor or installing parts that have to do with rotational forces you should try to have them high speed dynamic balanced... I got that same type noise with a VW and it was the clutch/flywheel out of balance. I try to balance everything from the crank pulley to the flywheel together. Good to see your project taking shape Anders... It's alive, it's alive!
                I know that is true in theory, but what do you do if you have balanced everything and you want to replace the clutch? Pull the crank to re-balance?

                I always thought the only thing in "the real world" that made sense was for each component to be balanced individually.....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Anders, you need to pull the transmission off again and inspect everything. Sometimes the oddest things cause noise. That is the first step. You setup shouldn't make any noise unless something is wrong. It doesn't appear to be even a resonance noise either. It sounds like something is too loose of contacting something that it shouldn't. Simple investigation will solve the issue.

                  2.5 L track car (284/276, 11.25:1, Stage III head, Alpha-N, DTM CF manifold, Sport EVO header, etc) and a 2.6 L street car (276/264, 11:1, Sub-box in the trunk).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dynospot View Post
                    Anders, you need to pull the transmission off again and inspect everything. Sometimes the oddest things cause noise. That is the first step. You setup shouldn't make any noise unless something is wrong. It doesn't appear to be even a resonance noise either. It sounds like something is too loose of contacting something that it shouldn't. Simple investigation will solve the issue.
                    Thanks for the feedback. Do you think something could possibly be rubbing inside the bellhousing?? I know you have a great shop, Dick, what wierd stuff can you suggest to look for?
                    Anders

                    "Objects in mirror are losing..."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Anders,

                      I just listened to the sound file. I had similar noises after I did my 2.5 liter rebuild. I had gone with lower 740i engine mounts and my ST sway bars were hitting the bottom of the bellhousing. I would only get a resonance when decelerating and it reverbed through the whole cabin. It almost sounded like the rear end.

                      Also my rear end alignment was off which cause some noise. Make sure nothing is touching the belhousing on the outside. The bell vibrates at the engine rpm and anything it touches will reverb through the whole car.

                      Pat
                      Last edited by m3pat2; 03-11-2008, 11:24 AM.
                      Pat

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                      • #12
                        More updates:

                        I can get the resonance to happen steady-state. When I apply some pressure to the clutch, but not enough to slip it, the sound goes away completely or mostly.

                        What do you guys think of that?
                        Anders

                        "Objects in mirror are losing..."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Anders, Did you manage to sort out the problem? I have the same resonating sound under deceleration.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yeah, I ripped that piece of shit out and installed a Sachs Racing pressure plate with an oem friction disc. Same JB flywheel, no noise...
                            Anders

                            "Objects in mirror are losing..."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I posted a subject on this when I bought a clutchmasters and jb fly wheel kit from vac. I should have searched and read anders post. They also told me they had never heard of an issue. Some s14ers said that had the same noise and vibration on decel, some had no bad experiences. Clutchmasters said it wasn,t installed properly. We pulled it out twice, but nothing was wrong. I kept the jb flywheel and got rid of the rest.no noise on decel. Search clutchmasters and you can read about how many s14ers have had problems. Sorry to hear you made the same mistake I did.
                              Last edited by temple; 07-26-2010, 03:48 PM.

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