Latest Dyno Chart

[wookie1976]

Here is my final dyno chart from 2 weeks ago after some tuning on my A/N at Schatz and Krum's in Sacramento. I posted my peak power (163 H.P.) shortly after, but I thought some of you might want to see the curves instead. The area under the curve is much more important anyway! I wish my torque curve was really 300 ft-lbs peak, but that is only the roller torque not the wheel torque since we didn't connect the RPM pickup. When I get off my lazy ass, I will convert the torque into RPM rather than MPH. Till then, comments or observations anyone?

Sorry for the poor scan guys, the grid lines make it hard to reduce the image size without making things unreadable.

[Reelizmpro]

Your car is stock with the MAXX AN kit correct?

[cramer]

wow, i'd expect alot more from the A/N kit even on a stock motor. I put down 178 to the wheels with only a dinan chip...

[wookie1976]

100% stock except for A/N, JC Chip for ignition and air meter bypass.

Yea, I felt the numbers were a little low too. Well at least until a brand new rebuilt 2.3 on 100 octane with timing to match pulled in after me. I put down the same HP and a little more torque. For reference, my motor has 130k + miles. The dyno was also a Mustang, which typically puts down much lower numbers than than the dynojets. Stewart the owner of the shop dynos these cars all the time (he also does unichip tuning) and feels that my numbers are right in line.

I did some calcs last night and figured about 145-150 ft-lbs of torque peak. That may give some more insight on my numbers.

We also used a Motec wide-band to tune the mixture, so I know its not to rich or lean.

[Reelizmpro]

I think they are still low. I got 167rwhp from just a JC chip and found this to be typical (some people got more). I would think you'd be in the 180's at least. Perhaps something is wrong with ur engine? Accelerator cable adjusted??? Mine wasn't and I pulled an embarrassing 155rwhp with cams/headers/chip etc etc.

[Ironhead]

Part of it is definitely the Mustang dyno. My car did 203 HP on the same machine. Based on my build specs, and Dynojet results from people with similar builds, I was expecting more like 220.

Then Stewart Krum explained that Mustang dynos typically read 8-15% lower than the far more common Dynojet.

[Ironhead]

Wookie,

How do you convert "roller torque" to wheel torque?

He gave me the same type of figures he did you.

[cramer]

ah yes, the mustang dyno is probably part of the reason for the low numbers. I ran mine (150k original miles) on a dynojet to get the 178whp.

[stroker2.5]

Ironhead and Wookie i also dynoed on dynojet and mustang here were my numbers 212 hp and 180 tq (dynojet) and 193 hp and 154 tq (mustang), both times the cars had the same mods. I have also been on a dynapack 208 hp and 165 tq.

[wookie1976]

Originally posted by Ironhead
Wookie,

How do you convert "roller torque" to wheel torque?

He gave me the same type of figures he did you.

Figure out what gear he was running in (ie: probably 4th), then use this calculator to determine rpm based on speed. You must input your tire size, tranny gear ratio, and final drive into the calculator. You can get these specs on the s14.net spec+ from the home page.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/multirpmcalc.html

Then comes the second part, You need to estimate your HP at those calculated engine rpm's you determined from the first part. Enter these HP numbers into this calculator.
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...ls/torque.html

Its a bit of an estimation since you are guessing your HP numbers and RPM based on tire speed. Id say you will be within 5-10% error. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.

Joe

BTW: I'm glad to see that your numbers seem low too. I fully believe that Stewarts dyno is reading low compared to the Dynojets. I have personally worked with several engineers of Mustangs over the years on the Smog dynos and I have to say that they have consistanly put down very accurate numbers. We (CA State) have a large DC motor with wheels that we spin on these dynos to see how accurate they are. Our device is VERY accurate so I am confident that they used their knowledge on their performance dynos as well.

[jimmy p.]

The most important thing about any dyno numbers is "what dyno did you do this on".

I always ask that before I ask anything else.

Dynojets are numbers machines.
Mustangs are tuning machines.

Most tuners who really seem to know their act,,, have either a Mustang or a Dynopak.

Dynojets seem to be at more shops where people come in looking for a number of their HP on paper to tell their friends about (hence the optimistic readings).

Figure 15% difference between Dynojet & Mustang dynos.

Cheers
jimmy p.

[EVOIIIM3]

Go find a Dynojet and run there!!

There is no way to estimate your torque or real HP as if you ran a Dynojet.

163 is not bad, but it's not where you should be.

[John]

I agree with Jimmy. There are much too many
over estimated dyno results floating around, and
it seems most of those have been on dynojets.

dynopak numbers seem to be on the high side too.

the #1 power car listed here in S14.net -- I flat
out dont believe it. 253 hp with an AFM. That is
approx. 300+ crank hp. On all the cars listed,
it should state which dyno the numbers came from.
Perhaps I missed that. Not trying to disapoint anyone,
but you guys like to compare your results for various
mods and various dynos around the country. So, my recommendation
would be on any power number you read figure in 10% error and
if its a dynojet, subtract 20% for real world power.

John

[John]

Joe, with 130K miles, what is the general condition of the
engine? e.g., leak down and compression? does the car
need a "tune up"?

Whenever you get the chance, hook up laptop, turn on the
logger and drive a little. include a few full throttle
(4000 to 8000 rpm) runs 2/3/4 gear. 10 minutes or so is
enough. Then email me the log file, Id like to take a look
at it and also send me your current map. It would be really
nice if you could do this. We will analyze it and if we
see something of course notify you. That applies to anyone
else with alpha N too, just send a log file and map file
and we'll take a look at it.

John

PS: I think you said you had a wideband meter now,
if so you can hook it up to the AN and log it too, all it
needs is a 0-5V output and the voltage to AFR characteristic
if it is not linearized. I can tell you how to do that if
interested.

[wookie1976]

Originally posted by John
Joe, with 130K miles, what is the general condition of the
engine? e.g., leak down and compression? does the car
need a "tune up"?

Whenever you get the chance, hook up laptop, turn on the
logger and drive a little. include a few full throttle
(4000 to 8000 rpm) runs 2/3/4 gear. 10 minutes or so is
enough. Then email me the log file, Id like to take a look
at it and also send me your current map. It would be really
nice if you could do this. We will analyze it and if we
see something of course notify you. That applies to anyone
else with alpha N too, just send a log file and map file
and we'll take a look at it.

John

PS: I think you said you had a wideband meter now,
if so you can hook it up to the AN and log it too, all it
needs is a 0-5V output and the voltage to AFR characteristic
if it is not linearized. I can tell you how to do that if
interested.

John,
I was going to send you a log file soon since I promised you one a while ago. I will try to get that done in the next week or so. As for the condition of the engine...
I have put new plugs, rotor, cap, and Gustave (Magnecor) wire set about 2-3k miles ago. All fluids are new and synthetic (tranny, rear, motor). I adjusted the valves about 4k ago so shouldn't be anything there either. I havent done a leak down yet, but I guess it would be a good idea. I have also recently equalized my throttle bodies and checked for full throttle cable throw.
As for the wideband, I have thought about setting mine up so that I can log to the A/N file, but I havent done that yet. My meter has a linearized output of 0-5v so it shouldnt be a problem to set up.
Ill try to have that in the data when I send it to you.
I was thinking about putting in a AEM wideband O2 sensor into the car permanently. The box will also output a linearized signal, so I can use it for not only tuning, but plug it into an AF meter on my a-pillar. This way I have a good idea of my state of engine tune and will allow me to make "on the fly" changes. What do you think about such an idea? Id use my current wideband meter, but its not really designed to be permanently mounted.

Is the best way to hook up the wideband to unplug the factory O2 sensor and input the simulated signal to the ecu side of the wiring loom? I figured that is best since you have easy access and a termination point. You know off the top of your head which color wire is the positive signal?