Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Stock height of S14 head?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Stock height of S14 head?

    Hello members,

    I'm looking for the stock height of the 2.3L S14 and what would eb the max "shaved" value that can support the head before replace it. Of corse this is w/o the lifter-cams, etc tray bolted.

    Mine it's about 95.23mm

    Thanks
    Euro M3'87 NogaroSilver / Euro E34 M5 '93 / Porsche 993 TT 97' Euro / Porsche 993 Carrera 95' Euro / Skyline R33 GT-R


  • #2
    From the Koala manual...

    Stock cylinder head height is 96.0mm 0.03 (3.7795 0.0012")
    Mark Williams
    Dallas, TX

    Nothing says "welcome to the neighborhood" like a search... oh wait... looks like they are all gone! :rastajake:

    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks. Wonder how much can hold my current head and if it supports another slight machine or just run it like that.
      Euro M3'87 NogaroSilver / Euro E34 M5 '93 / Porsche 993 TT 97' Euro / Porsche 993 Carrera 95' Euro / Skyline R33 GT-R

      Comment


      • #4
        I would say 0.7mm missing is already quite a lot. But that's my own personal opinion.


        Goodbye M3, you served me well.

        Comment


        • #5
          I was under the impression that if the circles were gone the head was past minimum thinkness.

          Comment


          • #6
            What circles you mean exactly? Any chance of a photo showing it?
            Euro M3'87 NogaroSilver / Euro E34 M5 '93 / Porsche 993 TT 97' Euro / Porsche 993 Carrera 95' Euro / Skyline R33 GT-R

            Comment


            • #7
              There are shallow round "circles" in the corners of the head. They're there as a rough indicator of when a head has been machined too far. A machinist can tell for sure.

              I understand (I haven't had to do this myself) that even a head past prime can be salvaged with a "MLS" (multi-layer steel) head gasket from VAC. These heads are, of course, expensive, so if you have a problematic head it may be possible to salvage it with careful machining and a thick head gasket.
              The day ain't over yet....

              Comment


              • #8
                The stock HG is 1,82mm according tot he manual (just found it). From the list seems there is no a thicker option but it may exist.

                So, guessing that teh deck hasn't been resurfaced (machined) and the head it's stock (never machined as well) stock 2.3L s14 and stock HG of 1.86mm and 10:5CR, by about 0.7mm of machining the head, what would translate the CR to?

                Thanks

                PS: I fitted VAC Wiseco 11:1 CR pistons.
                Euro M3'87 NogaroSilver / Euro E34 M5 '93 / Porsche 993 TT 97' Euro / Porsche 993 Carrera 95' Euro / Skyline R33 GT-R

                Comment


                • #9
                  CR = (VH +VC) / VC

                  where
                  VH = PI/4 * bore ^2 * stroke (nominal Volume of 1 cylinder)
                  VC = Volume of the dome (all compressed)

                  if CR = 10.5; VC = 60580 mm^2; with 0.7 mm shaved off --> CR = 11.3

                  if CR = 11.0; VC = 57558 mm^2; with 0.7 mm shaved off --> CR = 11.9

                  But it's not only the CR, it's your valves moving closer to the pistons...

                  Thomas
                  Last edited by TR-Spider; 04-15-2009, 08:28 AM.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TR-Spider View Post
                    CR = (VH +VC) / VC

                    where
                    VH = PI/4 * bore ^2 * stroke (nominal Volume of 1 cylinder)
                    VC = Volume of the dome (all compressed)

                    if CR = 10.5; VC = 60580 mm^2; with 0.7 mm shaved off --> CR = 11.3

                    if CR = 11.0; VC = 57558 mm^2; with 0.7 mm shaved off --> CR = 11.9

                    But it's not only the CR, it's your valves moving closer to the pistons...

                    Thomas
                    Holy crap! That would be quite alot, 11.9! I might have to find a thicker HG then...I don't want to have problems with ping or knock (I know the DME has a fuel-timing adjuster) but that's something I wouldn't like to touch.
                    Euro M3'87 NogaroSilver / Euro E34 M5 '93 / Porsche 993 TT 97' Euro / Porsche 993 Carrera 95' Euro / Skyline R33 GT-R

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yup,

                      A MLS is your best friend in this scenario, that can take care of it.
                      I'll shoot you a reply email Diego.

                      ...Oh, no more Wisecos, you have the CPs.
                      After we started seeing quality problems, we dropped Wiseco, Wossner, and a few others.
                      Last edited by [email protected]; 04-15-2009, 11:20 AM.
                      Feel free to ask me any questions you have! Please email [email protected]
                      1.215.462.4666
                      VAC Motorsports :mario:
                      (I don't check PMs often, please email)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Agree with others.. the head is below spec, but too valuable to toss it in the trash.. this is a case for an MLS head gasket.... (otherwise, an MLS gasket really is not worth the money IMHO on a head that is within spec)... Pay CLOSE attention to the prepping of the head and the block as per Cometic, or whomever makes the MLS gasket.
                        Mark Williams
                        Dallas, TX

                        Nothing says "welcome to the neighborhood" like a search... oh wait... looks like they are all gone! :rastajake:

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          JUdging by the photo of the MLS, it seems doesn't have the "Viton" material drawn like many OEM mls gaskets I have seen, however I have a solution in case Cometic or that brand that is, doesn't suggest anything besides the classic copper-mls sealant spray.
                          Euro M3'87 NogaroSilver / Euro E34 M5 '93 / Porsche 993 TT 97' Euro / Porsche 993 Carrera 95' Euro / Skyline R33 GT-R

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The guys at VAC know all about the MLS options. They've got a range of thicknesses that'll take care of a too-short head. I'm sure that as these cars age and more of them need machining, using MLS gaskets will become more common place.

                            BTW: A machinist can give you an exact measure of your head's height. They'll also be able to tell you whether it's square front-to-back and side-to-side. You need to know those things on an reworked head. I'm sure just having it measured won't cost much, and will give you the confidence you need in its usability.
                            The day ain't over yet....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I too have pondered the minimum thickness of the S14 head. I've never seen a concrete answer to that question despite 10+ years in the Community. The 'dots' on the head are often mentioned as 'guides' to how much a head can be skimmed, but I'm not sure I have a lot of faith in that either because some have suggested that those dots are just a by-product of the manufacturing process. After all, BMW states that the S14 had shouldn't be skimmed *at all* (but we all do it anyway with good results...).

                              As to whether or not '...your machinist can tell you the min thickness...', I think if you asked 10 different machinists you'd get 10 different answers, probably based on how busy of a month he's having and not S14-specific experience. :(

                              And MLS gaskets? I've considered them too [way cheaper than the Grp A headgasket!], but the thing that concerns me is that every retailer I've ever seen will say that head studs are "strongly recommended" when using an MLS gasket. The issue there is that ARP plainly states that their studs must be re-torqued after a few heat-cycles. Of course, re-torquing the S14 head fasteners will require the removal of the cam tray and everything else associated. IMHO that's a serious PITA deal-breaker. Not a big deal on other head designs where all you have to do is remove the cam cover to reveal the head fasteners.

                              Diego, do a search on the site for the head dots. You'll know them when you see them. Please tell us if your head still has the dots. It's good info for the Community to have. Better yet, just post a pic of the underside of your head.

                              HTH,
                              -Dietrich :soccer:
                              Must be in a pessimistic mood right now...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X