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  • Alcon Brakes

    As some will have seen from my restoration thread, I intend on upgrading the brakes to AP 4 pot front/2 pot rears. After much measuring, head scratching and teaching myself some AutoCAD, realised that you can't get a 4 pot caliper behind a stock 16" wheel without increasing offset on the wheel either adding thickness to the hub face on the bell, using spacers or using offset steering knuckles. Increasing offset increases scrub radius which is not desirable, although not the end of the world.

    I had spotted some time ago an Alcon caliper used on the Ford Fiesta S1600 JWRC and Malcom Wilson Motorsport (M.Sport) were selling off loads of the things on e bay, going for as little as 100 a pair.



    As you can see, they are a floating caliper, but of a much higher quality than those fitted OEM. Being a sliding caliper, they need less space on the outside of the disc face and therefore may fit the E30 M3. This gave me an idea.

    I did a bit of googling and found a drawing...



    I already had a CAD model of the strut hard points, so I knocked up a sketch and took it to the pub where I bought a man some drinks and he agreed to make me up a prototype for one side in any scrap metal he could find to test fit.

    3 weeks later he delivers both sides in Stainless Steel!



    OK, so they are a bit heavey, but I should be able to test them before producing the Mk2, lightweight models.

    I bought the bearings from M.Sport (standard SKF part) and fitted them up.





    And they just fit behind a 16" wheel with a 330x28mm disc.



    I designed the brackets with a 315mm disc in mind as that is more appropriate for my intended use and lighter too.

    The offset of the disc is increase slightly and the bell at the hub face is 2mm thicker: et25, as this is what I had for my AP set up. With the 315mm disc, a standard thickness bell would be fine, but the offset would still be needed.

    I pretty sure this set up will not be as good in terms of feel as an AP 4/6 pot set up, but it will be much better than stock.

    Any thoughts/comments welcomed.

    Steve
    Sport Evo No.47

    My Sport Evo Restoration

  • #2
    Steve,

    Very nice. Any idea what the total weight of the setup is/would be versus stock? So, for a complete package, you will need a sliding bracket, disk, bell hat, caliper and probably a new brake line, not to mention pads. Any idea of total cost? I like the ease of changing pads on this caliper vs a stock set up.

    Peter

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    • #3
      There are tree brackets required, inner, outer (both fixed) and the sliding bracket. Cost wise? I paid 200 for the calipers from e bay, discs from AP/Alcon would be 400, bells 80, brackets I have yet to cost up, but probably 250 ish.

      Steve
      Sport Evo No.47

      My Sport Evo Restoration

      Comment


      • #4
        Pretty interesting technology. I never saw it before. Fixed rotors. Fixed calipers bolted on sliders. Let us know how it works.


        [email protected]

        1969 2002 racecar
        1989 M3 racecar
        e39 Touring

        Comment


        • #5
          Well done Steve,

          Keep us posted.

          I'm sure there are many out there looking to improve braking beyond uprated discs and pads but still want to keep the 16inch rims.

          Comment


          • #6
            QUOTE=stevesingo;397316]There are tree brackets required, inner, outer (both fixed) and the sliding bracket. Cost wise? I paid 200 for the calipers from e bay, discs from AP/Alcon would be 400, bells 80, brackets I have yet to cost up, but probably 250 ish.

            Steve[/QUOTE]

            nice one Steve! I saw these a while back on Ebay but didn't dare to risk the money.
            I googled but didn't find any useful information, would you mind PM me some links?

            Also looked at these, but again, no dimensions or specs found onthe interweb.
            [


            Goodbye M3, you served me well.

            Comment


            • #7
              I saw those calipers a few times on ebay and olny sused how they work with your diagram and brackets

              Nice work by the way

              Jason

              Comment


              • #8
                Uwe,

                The sum total of hours of Googling for info on the calipers is the two images above. There is nothing, nada, ziltch to be found.

                Jason, it was finding that diagram that convinced me that this would be possible. That was long after I saw sets of calipers go on ebay for 100 or even less. Bugger.

                Steve
                Sport Evo No.47

                My Sport Evo Restoration

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by UweM3 View Post
                  QUOTE=stevesingo;397316]There are tree brackets required, inner, outer (both fixed) and the sliding bracket. Cost wise? I paid 200 for the calipers from e bay, discs from AP/Alcon would be 400, bells 80, brackets I have yet to cost up, but probably 250 ish.

                  Steve
                  nice one Steve! I saw these a while back on Ebay but didn't dare to risk the money.
                  I googled but didn't find any useful information, would you mind PM me some links?

                  Also looked at these, but again, no dimensions or specs found onthe interweb.
                  [[/quote]


                  Those PBR calipers are the stock calipers on the 2005-2006 Monaro/Pontiac GTO. Ask me how I know........

                  These are two piston calipers that utilize a 320mm rotor. Not quite good enough for a 3700 lb. car.
                  Several E30 M3's.

                  More than I need but not as many as I want....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by inastrangeland View Post
                    These are two piston calipers that utilize a 320mm rotor. Not quite good enough for a 3700 lb. car.
                    Yes but how about a 2400lbs car? I was under the impression that the pbr caliper was an upgrade? Are they fitted from stock?

                    I wouldn't mind getting my hands on set, any idea where to get them?

                    They will be not as good as a proper 4 or 6 pot but think they are better than E30 M3 brakes. Like Steve I want to run the rims I have and not changing ET or rims to make room for 4 pots.
                    Right now I run a 300x28 disk with 7 series single sliding calipers and this is already a noticable improvement. M-fart runs the same setup with PAGID BLue pads and he is quite happy as well .


                    Goodbye M3, you served me well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Very interesting chaps. Keep it up.

                      :nice!:

                      "But most of all...
                      ... I like the way you move......"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Az in Oz View Post
                        Very interesting chaps. Keep it up.

                        :nice!:
                        isn't PBR australian manufactured? Just thinking out loud....


                        Goodbye M3, you served me well.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bing!!! I do believe you are correct. I will do some research chaps and see if I can get my hands on some.... 2005-2006 Monaro... sick mate! [peace]

                          Would this be a goose chase or are these calipers already getting about on an E30M3?

                          Happy to help from down here (not under the desk)

                          Aaron

                          Bugger..... I was hoping to sit on my arse and wait for a good outcome.

                          "But most of all...
                          ... I like the way you move......"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hey GUys,
                            Not 100% sure, but I think Ireland Engineering has long ago made up BMW brake kits using some of the PBR sliding 2 piston calipers (as found in the US on some Corvettes, Mustangs and Camaros).

                            If you are still up for "upgrading" to a slider I think its been done.
                            Have a look at Ireland's site.

                            HTH
                            jimmy p
                            jimmy p.
                            87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                            88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                            88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                            92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                            98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                            04 Ford F350 - V10

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ireland Engineering has indeed been offering front kits using Baer/PBR 4 pot sliding calipers for a couple of years.

                              Steve. Any reason for using this sliding mechanism over a regular aluminum adapter?
                              Last edited by LeeVuong; 01-06-2010, 02:57 AM.


                              [email protected]

                              1969 2002 racecar
                              1989 M3 racecar
                              e39 Touring

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