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Brakes from E36M3 on E30M3

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  • Brakes from E36M3 on E30M3

    Has anyone done this without spacer behind the brake disc?
    I have the "bottom ends" that moves the steering rod, so that is not a problem, but I need to make some sort of adaptor to move the breake caliper.
    Is there anyone who has done this, ore knows where I can buy this "adaptor"?

  • #2
    Originally posted by FrodeM View Post
    Has anyone done this without spacer behind the brake disc?
    I have the "bottom ends" that moves the steering rod, so that is not a problem, but I need to make some sort of adaptor to move the breake caliper.
    Is there anyone who has done this, ore knows where I can buy this "adaptor"?
    can you please show a picture from your "bottom ends"?
    I doubt that you can run the E36 disk without a spacer without hitting the ball joint of the CA. The caliper is a straight bolt on to the E30 M3 strut, no adaptor required.

    You are better off getting a custom 2 piece disk made and use the E36 M3 caliper without bracket


    Goodbye M3, you served me well.

    Comment


    • #3
      Here are the forged strut bottoms that Frode is talking about.
      If these bottoms are used, the E36M3 disk will fit right on. But the caliper must be build backwards to fit.



      I'm on the look out for a drawing for a spacer that can be fitted on the back of the E36M3 disk.

      As we have talked about before Uwe, the custom 2 piece disk sounds like a better solution. But I don't know where to get one and what offset it needs to be.
      1987 BMW M3 E30

      S50B32 swap thread http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43515

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Larsen-Racing View Post
        Here are the forged strut bottoms that Frode is talking about.
        If these bottoms are used, the E36M3 disk will fit right on. But the caliper must be build backwards to fit.



        I'm on the look out for a drawing for a spacer that can be fitted on the back of the E36M3 disk.

        As we have talked about before Uwe, the custom 2 piece disk sounds like a better solution. But I don't know where to get one and what offset it needs to be.
        Holy cow, that moves the CA point a lot! How much will the track change with these?
        and what other geometry will change? I was looking into making some of these as well
        but A price put me off (220 GBP EACH!) and B I wasn't sure about geometry changes and C there was an easier solution (Merc 300mm disk).

        I will speak to my friend and find out where his bells are from but from top of my head I believe from BG deleopments here in UK. I am sure they can make you a set of bells and you source the disk locally to you. It may well be a Wilwood disk! Maybe you should contact Lee@massivebrakes.....


        Goodbye M3, you served me well.

        Comment


        • #5
          Another way to increase front track and clear the e36 M3 disc could involve using Massive's (cough cough) offset roll center spacers. I have't tried it for this purpose, but it seems it performs the same job as the forged Ackerman arms pictured above, probably for much, much cheaper, and it adds 26mm roll center spacers.

          The offset is 16mm. Track is augmented by about 22mm per side, and it requires to add clearance at the back of the wheel well. Also, maybe it has been said before, but the spacer for the e36 M3 disc is 12mm thick, give or take a few 0,1mm ;-)




          Last edited by LeeVuong; 04-23-2010, 12:43 AM.


          [email protected]

          1969 2002 racecar
          1989 M3 racecar
          e39 Touring

          Comment


          • #6
            They are a nice piece, made in Germany. And the cost a LOT. I have talked to Frode about borrowing his, and make a 3D drawing of them so I can have them made in a CNC machine.

            About the geometry I have no answers, only thing I know is that you get limited toe adjustment. In my case, I may have to cut of and re thread the pinion to be able to adjust at all, because of the Z3 rack.

            Edit: Lee, I have heard that that solution is no go. Why will you move the whole thing towards center of the car?
            I'm with you on them to reduce bump steer, but not to offset the bottoms from the strut.

            Spacer needs to be 12.8mm thick.
            Last edited by Larsen-Racing; 04-23-2010, 12:40 AM.
            1987 BMW M3 E30

            S50B32 swap thread http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43515

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Larsen-Racing View Post
              Why will you move the whole thing towards center of the car?
              It does the opposite. The Acrkerman arms stays (obviously) at the same location, but the strut moves 16mm outward. Therefore, you increase the distance between the rotor and the Ackerman arm by 16mm, while you need 12,8mm.

              I don't mind making a batch of 12,8mm spacers as long as I don't get stuck with them. 20 units (10 sets) minimum must be made. T6-6061 aluminum anodized for protection. They would have two setscrews (One per bolt pattern - e30 M3 - e36 M3) ;-)


              [email protected]

              1969 2002 racecar
              1989 M3 racecar
              e39 Touring

              Comment


              • #8
                I know the purists may cringe at the thought, but you could just swap in the E36M3 spindles and struts... it may be cheaper than all the custom brackets and spacers or hats. Brand new E36M3 spindles are dirt cheap right now.

                -Luis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by marques View Post
                  I know the purists may cringe at the thought, but you could just swap in the E36M3 spindles and struts...
                  And say goodbye to the e30 M3-specific caster ;-)


                  [email protected]

                  1969 2002 racecar
                  1989 M3 racecar
                  e39 Touring

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LeeVuong View Post
                    It does the opposite. The Acrkerman arms stays (obviously) at the same location, but the strut moves 16mm outward. Therefore, you increase the distance between the rotor and the Ackerman arm by 16mm, while you need 12,8mm.

                    I don't mind making a batch of 12,8mm spacers as long as I don't get stuck with them. 20 units (10 sets) minimum must be made. T6-6061 aluminum anodized for protection. They would have two setscrews (One per bolt pattern - e30 M3 - e36 M3) ;-)
                    So you change the offset by 16mm then. That is one of the reason why the forged Ackerman arms are better. All of the methods got pros and cons, exept the one Uwe is talking about. Use a disk with removable bell and get a low offset bell that it fits right into the caliper.
                    1987 BMW M3 E30

                    S50B32 swap thread http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43515

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by marques View Post
                      I know the purists may cringe at the thought, but you could just swap in the E36M3 spindles and struts... it may be cheaper than all the custom brackets and spacers or hats. Brand new E36M3 spindles are dirt cheap right now.

                      -Luis
                      It is a solution, but not a good one. As Lee says.
                      In fact, I got a complete front suspension from 3.2l M3 laying in the garage :blues:
                      1987 BMW M3 E30

                      S50B32 swap thread http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43515

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Larsen-Racing View Post
                        So you change the offset by 16mm then. That is one of the reason why the forged Ackerman arms are better. All of the methods got pros and cons, except the one Uwe is talking about. Use a disk with removable bell and get a low offset bell that it fits right into the caliper.
                        Look at the pictures. You will see you end up with exactly the same results. Wheel offset is not changed. Position of the strut in relation of the Ackerman is changed. The tooling to make a forged Ackerman arm will cost alot of money. Machining arms from a billet might work, but I don't know if they will be as strong as the original ones.

                        Making a disc with removable belt is what any BBK is about. Just pick an e30 M3 specific kit and you're done...


                        [email protected]

                        1969 2002 racecar
                        1989 M3 racecar
                        e39 Touring

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, the caster goes up a little bit from about 9 to about 10. Not a huge difference. You could get it back if your camber plates allow you to move the tops of the struts forward a bit.

                          -Luis


                          Originally posted by Larsen-Racing View Post
                          It is a solution, but not a good one. As Lee says.
                          In fact, I got a complete front suspension from 3.2l M3 laying in the garage :blues:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LeeVuong View Post
                            Look at the pictures. You will see you end up with exactly the same results. Wheel offset is not changed. Position of the strut in relation of the Ackerman is changed. The tooling to make a forged Ackerman arm will cost alot of money. Machining arms from a billet might work, but I don't know if they will be as strong as the original ones.

                            Making a disc with removable belt is what any BBK is about. Just pick an e30 M3 specific kit and you're done...
                            A good friend of mine works in a machine shop and with a CNC lathe, so the cost for me to make the parts I need is not big [peace]

                            Picking parts from a BBK can be hard it self, or is it something you can make Lee?
                            1987 BMW M3 E30

                            S50B32 swap thread http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43515

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              +1 for the cleanest solution with the adjusted disk-hat as Uwe suggested.

                              Offset rollspacer and modified Ackermann arm will increase srub radius, which is not a good idea IMHO. Stock scrub radius is already big with 14mm, so adding 12mm or more will increase it by 100%. As a result the car will follow road imperfections stronger, climb curbs etc.

                              Out of curiosity: can someone make a picture with strut of a M3 E30 and a M3 E36 3.0 and a M3 E36 3.2 next to each other so that the geometry can be seen? There are lots of opposing gossips around...

                              Thomas
                              Last edited by TR-Spider; 04-23-2010, 09:30 AM.
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