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  • Eric Giles
    replied
    I'm personally not sold on Freeze 12, so I have stuck with r12 on my two E30's. You can sometimes buy cans of r12 on ebay for around $20-25 a can plus shipping, which is really not a lot more expensive than r134a or Freeze 12. As was mentioned, the condenser on our cars really isn't large enough for r134a to cool as well as it could. Plus, if I am not mistaken the seals in the original compressors used in the M3 aren't compatible with the oil used in r134a.

    One drawback is that you cannot get (to my knowledge) an r12 specific expansion valve for an E30 anymore. The r12 part has been replaced by BMW parts with a r134a/r12 'compatible' valve that does not work as well with r12. When I fixed the a/c on my '88 M3 four years ago, I was able to get an r12 specific expansion valve and that system works perfectly. However, in my current E30, I am having to use the r134a valve and it doesn't work as well as it should. This has been verified by others that have had the same results and by an a/c technician. It really only affects cooling at idle, but still it is a small drawback. There is a writeup on E30tech.com on how to refurbish the original r12 expansion valve so that is what I would do if someone was to stick with r12.

    Just throwing another opinion out there...

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  • CTrapp
    replied
    Originally posted by 02fanatic View Post
    Hasn't anyone used Freeze 12?

    I've heard of some good results (just google it), and it won't require a complete conversion....it's environmentally friendly, EPA approved R12 substitute, & colder than R134A - or so I've heard, and easy to use, so why not give it a try? Of course, I'll make sure the wires to my compressor are functioning first.
    I currently have Freeze 12 in my car. It works freakin' great! [peace] My little brother has it in is '85 Mercedes Benz 300D, and it works just as well. I also believe he has it in is '86 325e too. My father used to have an '89 M3 with a 134 converstion, and the AC never blew as cold as he would have liked. No leaks, no issues with the system itself he could find. He swapped back and filled it with freeze 12 and never looked back.

    To me, it doesn't make sense to "convert" a system designed to us a specific type of freon, to use another. E30s don't hold as much freon as more modern cars that run 134. I think this is a major reason why my Dad had bad luck with his conversion. I hear that r12, like most environmentally un-friendly stuff I've tried, is a more effecient freon than newer more environmentally friendly stuff.

    Go for the Freeze 12. Seriously.
    Last edited by CTrapp; 06-15-2010, 09:59 AM.

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  • JackinMidtown
    replied
    I'm not doing the conversion. My shop uses the Freeze 12 and says that it works just fine. But, still got to get that new **** compressor. I typed the wrong "co..." word in the previous post. There are no compressors available through BMW right now.
    Last edited by JackinMidtown; 06-15-2010, 09:01 AM.

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  • 02fanatic
    replied
    Originally posted by JackinMidtown View Post
    According to my shop, to do the conversion and get enough cooling capacity out of it, you have to replace the condensor as well. It's pretty well a whole new AC system when they are through.

    Also, for those with AC problems, it appears that BMW has no condensors in the US (or Germany for that matter). I luckily found one today from a distributor that had just one sitting on the shelf.
    Yeah, I just checked the A/C on my '88 M5 that sits all the time...and no surprise, the R12 A/C is no longer working. I had it professionally repaired (rebuilt compressor, new rec/dr, etc) in the mid-90's, and it's been fine. But, I understand R12 that isn't used will slowly leak through the lines (normal)...this is why they stopped using it. Before I go to a complete rebuild/swap to R134A however, I am going to try the Freeze 12. It's compatible with R-12 and you don't have to do anything except make sure there is oil in the system and it's fully charged. At least the compressor works in the M5...the M3's compressor doesn't engage, so that may be another issue.

    Honestly Jack, I'd try the Freeze 12 before going through all the expense of doing a complete conversion. What harm can it do?

    John
    Last edited by 02fanatic; 06-15-2010, 08:42 AM.

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  • JackinMidtown
    replied
    According to my shop, to do the conversion and get enough cooling capacity out of it, you have to replace the condensor as well. It's pretty well a whole new AC system when they are through.

    Also, for those with AC problems, it appears that BMW has no condensors in the US (or Germany for that matter). I luckily found one today from a distributor that had just one sitting on the shelf.

    Leave a comment:


  • cramer
    replied
    I did a 134a conversion in my old Scirocco and was not impressed with the cooling so that's why i'm leaning towards something else

    Leave a comment:


  • njboy
    replied
    I think that Freeze 12 is some mixture mostly of r134 and some compatible ester oil. I read somewhere and I'm not suggesting this that one can use propane in the a/c system and that it works ok. If you have a slow leak try the freeze 12. I used it once on an old 90 accord and it worked but leaked out in a couple of months. Your biggest issue is if your leak is too big that it wont hold for one season of use. If it is then rebuild it and convert it to the 134. The freeze 12 will show how bad the leak is with some UV leak detection oil. It's usually the compressor seal and our compressors maybe rebuildable...not sure.

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  • luve30
    replied
    Originally posted by cramer View Post
    I'm also in the same process of trouble shooting and found the Freeze 12 alternative. So I too am wondering who has used it? I'd rather not convert to 134a due to the limited cooling. I loved the R12 when it worked, blew really cold, specially for an old system!
    I using 134a and I find it blows cold. As I said earlier, it's definitely as good, if not better, than my '08 A4.

    Leave a comment:


  • cramer
    replied
    I'm also in the same process of trouble shooting and found the Freeze 12 alternative. So I too am wondering who has used it? I'd rather not convert to 134a due to the limited cooling. I loved the R12 when it worked, blew really cold, specially for an old system!

    Leave a comment:


  • 02fanatic
    replied
    Originally posted by OnrailsM3 View Post
    Do the 134 conversion, and bask in the cool breezes of working A/C.

    If the system is empty, have it vac'd and converted. Then recharge for 1/10th the cost of R12.

    Mine always worked, I converted it 8 years ago and never looked back.
    I might consider doing that "if" I can do all the work myself. The last time I had A/C work done (on my M5) the 300# bozo working on the A/C sat in my Driver seat and busted the bolster frame! I hate anyone but me and my trusted mechanic around my cars! (and my mechanic doesn't do A/C on older cars) So, if I can't do all this work myself, it just won't get done!

    Leave a comment:


  • OnrailsM3
    replied
    Do the 134 conversion, and bask in the cool breezes of working A/C.

    If the system is empty, have it vac'd and converted. Then recharge for 1/10th the cost of R12.

    Mine always worked, I converted it 8 years ago and never looked back.

    Leave a comment:


  • luve30
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave @nz View Post
    Hi John,
    First up with safty glasses on remove one of the plastic caps from the a/c charging ports and push down the valve there should pressurised gass escape from the system, if not there is a leak this will stop the compressor clutch from engaging via the pressure switch on the r/dryer.
    Next is to inspect the wire going to the compressor, mine was broken in three places and this is a common problem.
    If the wire looks ok disconect it at the l/h headlight area and connect direct to 12v you should hear a clonk as the clutch engauges if not there is a problem with the wire to the clutch.
    With key in on position for next checks.
    If the clutch engages when clutch feed is connected to 12v reconnect the compressor wire and disconnect the electrical plug on the receiver dryer then connect the two ternimals together on the loom side (with a jump wire) if the compressor goes clonk this means the system is low on charge.
    I would recharge with r134a if the system reguires to be recharged and would not install a blend/replacement for r12.
    I have listed the procedure for r134a conversion here .
    Regards, Dave.
    http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread...highlight=134a

    http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39652

    http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread...2Fc+compressor
    Great info! I just had mine recharged and it's working great but I'm not 100% sure there isn't a leak so this could be handy.

    On another note, I don't think I'll need the A/C very often but the other day I had it on with my kids in the back and it was kind of neat to drive a 22 year old car that had A/C that seems to work a bit better than my '08 A4.

    Leave a comment:


  • 02fanatic
    replied
    Hasn't anyone used Freeze 12?

    I've heard of some good results (just google it), and it won't require a complete conversion....it's environmentally friendly, EPA approved R12 substitute, & colder than R134A - or so I've heard, and easy to use, so why not give it a try? Of course, I'll make sure the wires to my compressor are functioning first.

    Leave a comment:


  • njboy
    replied
    BMW sells a mini kit that changes the drier and pressure switch to R134a. That is your only hope because if you have a leak recharging with R12 is big $$$$$$$$.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave @nz
    replied
    Hi John,
    First up with safty glasses on remove one of the plastic caps from the a/c charging ports and push down the valve there should pressurised gass escape from the system, if not there is a leak this will stop the compressor clutch from engaging via the pressure switch on the r/dryer.
    Next is to inspect the wire going to the compressor, mine was broken in three places and this is a common problem.
    If the wire looks ok disconect it at the l/h headlight area and connect direct to 12v you should hear a clonk as the clutch engauges if not there is a problem with the wire to the clutch.
    With key in on position for next checks.
    If the clutch engages when clutch feed is connected to 12v reconnect the compressor wire and disconnect the electrical plug on the receiver dryer then connect the two ternimals together on the loom side (with a jump wire) if the compressor goes clonk this means the system is low on charge.
    I would recharge with r134a if the system reguires to be recharged and would not install a blend/replacement for r12.
    I have listed the procedure for r134a conversion here .
    Regards, Dave.
    http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread...highlight=134a

    http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39652

    http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread...2Fc+compressor

    Leave a comment:

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