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Any idea which headers these are?

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  • Any idea which headers these are?

    Any idea which headers these are?



    I was under the impression that I had Gruppe A headers, but it's obvious that there aren't two pieces here. I'm thinking they might just be stock headers that were power-coated. Any thoughts?
    '88 m3
    '88 m3
    '90 325i w/supercharged S50

  • #2
    idont think so...it looks like the tubing (secondary) is recognizeably(even a wrd?) larger...maybe sport evo headers?

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    • #3
      Read this http://www.e30m3performance.com/myth...ders/index.htm

      This space is a sanctimonious shit free zone.

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      • #4
        be careful with the term "gr. A".

        there are lots of "gr. A" headers out there --
        from the noncat (used on first DTM and gr. A and rally),
        to the 2 piece evo 2, to the evo3. Then you have
        the 4-1 DTM headers.

        I guess the only header not considered "gr. A" was
        the 42/48 header used on 195 hp cat and 215 hp cat cars.

        if you have a 50/50, or 50/55, then your fine.
        single or 2 piece doesnt matter.
        John

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BMG
          Read this http://www.e30m3performance.com/myth...ders/index.htm

          Based on this website I'm guessing they are EVO 3. How do these headers compare to the Gruppe A Rally headers horespower and torque wise? Turner Motorsport states on their website, "After testing all of them on the dyno, we have found the 2 piece Group A Rally header to make the most power with out sacrificing low end." These two headers appear identical visually, expect for the fact that one is two pieces.
          '88 m3
          '88 m3
          '90 325i w/supercharged S50

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          • #6
            Dont believe everythign you read on TMS website..

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            • #7
              It looks like a Euro non cat header to me.........
              Charley Terhune
              89 Zinno M3- stock 90k miles
              89 Zinno M3- 2.5 etc. etc.

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              • #8
                Looks like the secondaries are larger than the primaries, so that would make it an Evo 3 header. If they're the same diameter then the 1 pc euro non-kat header.

                88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
                89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
                85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
                91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH


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                • #9
                  I'd bet that's an E3 header. The primaries definitely look big enough to be E3 (or non-cat/E2 as well I suppose). And that they increase in size at the secondaries also leads me to believe this is E3 spec.

                  As far as the "Grp A" or "Rally" headers go, I blame TMS for the confusion. Just break it down to sizes and you can't go wrong.

                  The header made popular by TMS is the 2pc 50/50 header. Thatís what you see on their site. But there is another 50/50 header which was used on the non-cat cars and the Italian 320iS. They function exactly the same as they both have 50mm primaries and 50mm secondaries. The only differences are that the 2pc is um... 2 pc, and it has an O2 sensor bung. The non-cat header is one piece and does not have provisions for an O2 sensor.

                  The E3 header has an O2 sensor bung and comes speced with 50mm primaries and 55mm secondaries. You can see the step from 50 to 55mm in the pic. At least it appears to step up at the weld. I don't think the non-cat header has this weld line but I'm not sure.

                  So... which is better? That completely depends on how evolved your engine is. What do you have? I can't tell you myself but I'm sure one of our esteemed engine builders can. I have a few ideas after listening to others for a few years but I don't have first hand experience.

                  HTH,
                  Jake Larsen

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Another thing to note are the test ports on each of the runners. Stock US headers and E3 headers have them but the 2pc headers don't. Not sure if the 1 pc non-kat header does or not.

                    88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
                    89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
                    85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
                    91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Those look exactly like my Sport Evo headers on my car, except they were coated for heat treatment...

                      One easy way to tell is to get under the car and look at where the header meets the exhaust... If you don't have a custom exhaust system or the Sport Evo exhaust, you should recognize a noticeable step down in tube sizing there.

                      90 Sterling 2.5L E30///M3 lifer
                      97 Porsche Carrera S
                      13 Audi S6
                      SOLD 03 Audi RS6 daily
                      GONE 88 E28///M5 project

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                      • #12
                        the noncat 1 piece 50/50 header
                        (also called a "rally" header here)
                        has no CO test ports.

                        Like Jake said, 50/50 or 50/55 that is all that matters.
                        After that you get into DTM 4-1 headers or custom headers.

                        FWIW, I still run a 50/50 header at present and my
                        engine has pretty decent breathing ability.

                        John

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks to all for clearing up the confusion.
                          '88 m3
                          '88 m3
                          '90 325i w/supercharged S50

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jake
                            Just break it down to sizes and you can't go wrong.
                            Excellent recap Jake.
                            Nice post.
                            You are correct,,, we should all start using the size terminology as opposed to Grp A , Rally, Evo 3, etc.

                            WAY too many headers out there for that.

                            My BTCC car has the front half of the two piece 50/50 header and then a custom Y collector into 3" tubing all the way back.

                            Lots of variables,,, calling it by the size is where its at.

                            Cheers
                            jimmy
                            jimmy p.
                            87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                            88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                            88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                            92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                            98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                            04 Ford F350 - V10

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jimmy p.

                              My BTCC car....
                              One day ill be able to say that :sosad:

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