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Durability of aftermarket motor mounts

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  • #16
    Thier not too bad just short of 1k!!!:surprised
    -Darren

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    • #17
      For comparison here are TMS's prices: motor mounts (both) approx. $190, Grp. N motor mounts approx. $989 a pair. Both Trans mounts approx $85, but Grp. N trans mounts $284 a pair. A marked difference in price.

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      • #18
        <This> place has the Grp N engine mounts for $441ea and the gearbox mounts for $118ea. So for a full Grp N set you'd be looking at $1118 plus shipping.

        They are very pricey but worth it IMO.

        Jake

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        • #19
          Hi

          my car in it's previous life as a rally car ran these mounts for 2 season's and still does

          http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-...box/fp292.html

          Jason

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          • #20
            i have heard from from a former BMW race mechanic that the group n mounts were so expensive because they were made to look stock for the class but be better. same result could be made for a lot less if it didnt have to be packaged to look stock.
            if this is true, is there a motor mount as good that doesnt have the hi cost?
            thanks

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            • #21
              Gr.N engine & transmission mounts

              If you consider only the initial cost the difference is substantial both with the stock or any aftermarket option ... However, if you add durability / service life / potential damage sustained because of a broken mount then it is a wise investment.

              I had a "near disaster" because of broken AGK engine/transmission mounts ... left-right sequence with a 2nd to 3rd gear exit ... turned accidentally into 2nd to 1st gear near shift @ well over 8.000rpm. This was with a new 2.000Km S14 2,5l Gr.A spec engine ... consider the potential replacement cost. :shit:

              Pictures of the Gr.N vs. stock engine mounts ... + AGK broken engine mount. To cut a long story short: The material hardness is only one of the components in the equation. Need to consider decoupling the top & bottom screws with sufficient length into the rubber, the metal cup below where it rests on the front subframe, conical shape of the rubber element and cut at the top to allow minimal lateral movement.

              The AGK mount is conical but does not have a metal cup base, there is no cut on top to allow minimal lateral movement and the length of the screws into the rubber is too short ...
              Last edited by MMMM; 01-19-2012, 05:54 AM.
              1986 BMW E30 M3 CF airbox & Alpha N
              2007 Audi RS4 sedan

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              • #22
                If you want best solution for track use, these are only choice :http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46247

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                • #23
                  @MMMM

                  I had the same problem a few years ago with Ireland Engineering mounts. The problem is mainly of bad design. Basically it requires more than just a surface to ensure the urethane will hold onto the metal cup and bolt head. Also, do not forget that the heatshield must be installed to protect the engine mount.

                  @ M-tinker

                  Engine mounts that consist of a compliant material and solid thru-bolt are flawed in design. They are total nonsense. Either the mount is solid, either it is somewhat soft. If it is somewhat soft, then the top and the bottom parts of the mounts should be decoupled.
                  Last edited by LeeVuong; 02-15-2011, 12:26 AM.


                  [email protected]

                  1969 2002 racecar
                  1989 M3 racecar
                  e39 Touring

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jannmann View Post
                    If you want best solution for track use, these are only choice :http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46247
                    These are great quality & finish, excellent for track only use, but when Conrad was developing these I already had bought the Gr.N items. If I had to do it over again I am not 100% sure which one I would buy as I am really happy with the Gr.N parts.
                    1986 BMW E30 M3 CF airbox & Alpha N
                    2007 Audi RS4 sedan

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LeeVuong View Post
                      @MMMM

                      I had the same problem a few years ago with Ireland Engineering mounts. The problem is mainly of bad design. Basically it requires more than just a surface to ensure the urethane will hold onto the metal cup and bolt head. Also, do not forget that the heatshield must be installed to protect the engine mount.

                      @ M-tinker

                      Engine mounts that consist of a compliant material and solid thru-bolt are flawed in design. They are total nonsense. Either the mount is solid, either it is somewhat soft. If it is somewhat soft, then the top and the bottom parts of the mounts should be decoupled.
                      @ LeeVuong

                      Ireland Engineering mounts are cylindrical design with no base cup? Picture?

                      That is correct, the decoupled thru-bolt is a vital feature of the OEM design.
                      1986 BMW E30 M3 CF airbox & Alpha N
                      2007 Audi RS4 sedan

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                      • #26
                        thanks for rehashing old but new to me info
                        i have been through most every motor mount post on this forum and as of now see no clear answer to what is the most efficient use of race money for mounts, i was leaning to the AKG/VAC set since they looked to function like the group n mounts and came in a full matched set. but after seeing the above failure posted by mmm having second thoughts.

                        the elephant mounts look to be well thought out, but i dont recall there being a rear set to match.

                        that being said i currently am leaning to the factory alpha n's engine and tranny but ouch

                        any other opinions?

                        thanks

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                        • #27
                          sorry also i havent fount the part #'s for the group N motor and trans mounts, i want to price check at my dealer, can someone point me to them please
                          thanks

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                          • #28
                            I've used stock mounts, 7 series mounts, Ireland mounts, and AKG mounts.

                            They have all broken, when subjected to extreme stress (like going into a tire wall, or hitting a racecar that ends up in front of you and you have nowhere to go. )

                            For a street car that sees a couple driver schools a year, or autocrossing, stick with stock mounts.

                            Gruppe N mounts are stupid expensive. And they will break just like a stock one too. But they are stupid expensive.

                            AKG is more expensive than Ireland. I run AKG mounts in the race car, and keep a couple Ireland ones as spares just in case. As Lee mentioned, the design of both is not well thought out, but the quality of the AKG is better. For 3X the price, it should be.
                            sigpic
                            2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion
                            2011, 2013 SCCA Runoffs Super Touring Under 3.0L Bronze Medalist
                            2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year
                            2012 SCCA Northeast Divisional STU Champion
                            2015 SCCA Runoffs STU Polesitter

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                            • #29
                              Wow,,,, I am shocked at the failure mode of the AKG mount.
                              How the f*ck could they not expect that to fail.
                              Thats a horrible design.
                              So glad i didnt buy a set of those.

                              I has assumed they had significant anchorage into the rubber / nylon / whatever it is. how could they expect that not to separate.

                              I agree 100% with the sentiments posted, thru bolt design doesnt work, its an awful idea.
                              The AKG guys could have made theirs work, they just needed a deeper anchor.
                              so close.
                              The Vorshlag ones one could make at home with stock you can buy from McMaster Carr (ask me how I know)... Its not good.

                              I have been running full solids for a few years now,,, over the winter switching to the Conrad Grp A copies. Expensive, but wonderful work, virtually indestructable and still cheaper than real Grp N mounts.

                              Good thread. The lack of a quality, affordable performance motor mount for our cars has always astounded me.

                              Still cant believe the AKG mount has so little meat into the mount.
                              Thats just designed to fail. Shame.
                              jimmy p.
                              87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
                              88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
                              88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
                              92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
                              98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
                              04 Ford F350 - V10

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jimmy p. View Post
                                Thats just designed to fail. Shame.
                                Interestingly, we had a thread a year ago about how to improve the urethane motor mounts by doing simple changes in the design of the end caps, like adding a smaller inverted cup, portruding at least 1/2" into the mount. BTW I am suprised that most suppliers use the same lousy design. What were they thinkin' ?

                                My first set of IE mounts. Lasted one track day. The second set (different design) has been on the car for 3 or 4 years.




                                [email protected]

                                1969 2002 racecar
                                1989 M3 racecar
                                e39 Touring

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