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Injectors - updated 4-hole design - can we use them?

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  • Injectors - updated 4-hole design - can we use them?

    Can we use these in our cars and if so what ones would one get? I have been reading about the benefits of Bosch's updated "design II/design III" injectors with the 4-hole spray pattern that is supposed to better atomize the fuel vs our stock injectors. I am in need of getting new ones (car has 160k+ and AFAIK they are the original injectors - never rebuilt) since the cost of new ones isn't that much more than having the current ones refreshed.

    I know that I couldn't use ones with the EV6 connecters without getting adapters but the EV1 connecter should be a straight swap based on what I have read. Also, I am basically a stock motor so I know that 24lb and around 240cc is the flow rate that I want and I would want low impedance as well (or can I run high impedance injectors w/o having a stand-alone FMS?). Would I have a huge issue if they were 250cc or 260cc instead? Also, I am running the 3.5 bar FPR currently.

    Can anyone share any input on this? I searched all the terms that I could think of but couldn't find a definite answer.
    “Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that’s what gets you.”
    Jeremy Clarkson - BBC Top Gear
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  • #2
    I'm using Ev6s in both my cars (White Corvette Z06 parent app, 375cc).
    Dont have the part number handy.
    No issues.

    The big things are if you are going to scour the Bosch injector catalog (which it sounds like you have been, or started) is getting the body length right to make it work with an S14 fuel rail, EV1 connector unless you want to change the harness or use adapters, and picking you flow and spray pattern.

    This guy actually has a big selection:
    http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/
    I bought mine from him.
    I went in pretty much knowing what I wanted, but he had some good input when I called to order.
    Very helpful guy.

    I wanted the latest EV14s but couldn't find an app that worked well for our engines, they all seemed too big or too small (mostly too big), along with the correct body and connector.

    This is a very helpful site:
    http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

    We had some good discussions going on John's board about the subject as well.
    http://board.s14power.com/showthread...ight=injectors

    There are LOTS of EV6 choices that retain the EV1 connector and have the correct body length.
    I spent days looking through it all.
    jimmy p.
    87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
    88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
    88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
    92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
    98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
    04 Ford F350 - V10

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    • #3
      wow...thanks for the all the info (and the quick response). That helps a ton!

      One other question - since you are using them - are they worth seeking out and finding or is it kind of pointless since I am basically a stock motor (atleast for now and the immediate future)? Are there truly benefits to using this updated style?
      “Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that’s what gets you.”
      Jeremy Clarkson - BBC Top Gear
      sigpic

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      • #4
        I used them because the door was wide open when I switched EMS.
        I "needed" new injectors anyway (impedance).

        If your all stock, I would def not bother.
        many other things to spend money on.
        jimmy p.
        87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car
        88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - Street
        88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - Race (#98 SCCA SPU)
        92 E30 M Technic Cabrio - S14 POWERED!
        98 318Ti M44, Base - Morea Green
        04 Ford F350 - V10

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        • #5
          Stock motor - it might hurt. I think the stock DME is programmed to a certain flow rate and certain injector. If you changed injector size, you effectively change the amount of fuel that gets injected each squirt, and thus your AFRs.

          Stock motor - stick with stock injectors. If you're worried, send them to RC Fuel Injection and get them completely rebuilt and flow tested for ~$100.

          My "upgraded" injectors are High Impedance from a Volvo Turbo. Cost was around $150 including rebuild and flow testing.
          Last edited by Brendan; 04-23-2011, 02:42 AM.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brendan View Post
            Stock motor - it might hurt. I think the stock DME is programmed to a certain flow rate and certain injector. If you changed injector size, you effectively change the amount of fuel that gets injected each squirt, and thus your AFRs.

            Stock motor - stick with stock injectors. If you're worried, send them to RC Fuel Injection and get them completely rebuilt and flow tested for ~$100.

            My "upgraded" injectors are High Impedance from a Volvo Turbo. Cost was around $150 including rebuild and flow testing.
            2 things: I was assuming that I could get the same flow rate (more or less anyway) but take advantage of the better atomization of the 4 hole disc design vs. our single pintle stock injectors. However, I suppose that better atomization would have an impact on AFRs as well. My original plan was to find 24lb 240-260cc injectors that were Design II/III Bosch injectors so that the flow amount would be about the same as stock but have the 4 hole atomization upgrade. I had read that many were getting better MPG by moving to this injector style (not on our cars specifically but in general).
            Second, I assume you are using additional electronics to run high impedance injectors in our motor, right? I didn't think that our DME was designed to run either/or. I know that low imp. injectors can't be used on a motor designed for high imp. injectors w/out a new injector driver of some kind being used. But can high imp. injectors get thrown into a low imp. motor without issue since it is technically less strain on the electronics?
            “Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that’s what gets you.”
            Jeremy Clarkson - BBC Top Gear
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            • #7
              I am running a Megasquirt Standalone.

              The electronics in the M3 can handle high-z in the car, you just need to be able to account for the differing fuel (Via Alpha-N, Different AFM, Standalone, etc). IIRC, the Evo Green Injectors are high-z too.
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              • #8
                I looked over this awhile back also. So you can drive high impedance with the stock ECU long as have a piggy back to trim? Thought swapping was a no no but guess I need more reading. For low impedance I was planning on http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-...ors/?itemid=64

                I've bought 2 sets of injectors from fiveomotorsport for our 318s M42 motors with gen3 spray pattern (4 pintle). They are actually for fords.

                spray pattern example I like is
                Last edited by autox320; 04-23-2011, 05:31 PM.
                Photos

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                • #9
                  Brendan,
                  Did you find any benifits to running bigger injectors on a 2.3 with Mega Squirt?

                  Autox320
                  Did you get my pm?
                  Last edited by temple; 04-23-2011, 05:40 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by temple View Post
                    Brendan,
                    Did you find any benifits to running bigger injectors on a 2.3 with Mega Squirt?

                    Autox320
                    Did you get my pm?
                    Low-Z is possible, but It's much easier to run High-Z with the megasquirt. If I went stock low-z injectors it would have meant extra configuration and/or wiring.

                    Also, I wanted bigger injectors to support more power as I made upgrades and the Volvo's were cheaper than Evo's. I still have a stock 2.3L bottom end, but am at almost 220 rwhp now.
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                    • #11
                      I am looking at replacing the injectors in what will be only a slightly modified S14 and will be using the new design as I have seen the difference they can make in high performance motors. I have made some changes in preperation so that I will be able to tune for the possible changes to fuel and burn charatistics. I fitted the Miller Performance WAR Chip as a cost effective solution to full stand alone EMS, Alpha N Motec etc, and have been very pleased with the capabilities for tuning fuel and timing. I also fitted the Miller GEN111 MAF and can highly recommend as a solution for improved breathing over the AFM. The benifits v cost are great.
                      Good luck
                      John

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Brendan View Post
                        ...

                        The electronics in the M3 can handle high-z in the car, you just need to be able to account for the differing fuel (Via Alpha-N, Different AFM, Standalone, etc). IIRC, the Evo Green Injectors are high-z too.
                        Are you sure that the stock Motronic can handle hi-z injectors? I would think that the current limiting for the low-z injectors would mean a high-z injector wont stay open.

                        Sportevo injectors (0280150355) are low-z (2.4 Ohm) like the stock injectors BTW

                        Regarding the original post: I wouldnt bother with other than stock injectors on a stock ECU unless you find data that for any opening time they both deliver the same amount (mass) of fuel. Do the 4-hole ones have a 30 degree cone like the stock ones?
                        Last edited by hardtailer; 04-24-2011, 07:49 PM.

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                        • #13
                          I could be wrong, but here's where I got the info on the Evo "Green" injectors, not sure if they're the same, and - I've never used them or measured them myself:

                          http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23984

                          Originally posted by Bryan View Post
                          I’m using Evo Green high impedance injectors right now, but there are provisions for low impedance injectors.
                          My comment about the electronics being able to handle high-z was based on people using those injectors and Volvo injectors, but this is with the caveat that you still need to adjust for fuel.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Brendan View Post
                            My comment about the electronics being able to handle high-z was based on people using those injectors and Volvo injectors, but this is with the caveat that you still need to adjust for fuel.
                            Volvo's are low impedance as well as the evo's.

                            One's I linked to from fiveomotorsports


                            All Bosch reman. 0280150804 / 0280150357

                            This Bosch injector is 30lbs/hr at 43.5 psi and has a coil resistance of 2.7 Ohms.
                            Photos

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by autox320 View Post
                              Volvo's are low impedance as well as the evo's.

                              One's I linked to from fiveomotorsports


                              All Bosch reman. 0280150804 / 0280150357

                              This Bosch injector is 30lbs/hr at 43.5 psi and has a coil resistance of 2.7 Ohms.
                              The orange Volvo injectors are NOT low-z. I'm using them, I've measured them.
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