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  • Time for my engine upgrade. All help appreciated

    I will be finished my house renovations in about 4 months, so I will then be looking at increasing the fun in the engine department of my M3. As you know I live in Australia, so a lot of advice and knowledge I get from this board. (Its a great community) I have searched the forum and finished reading pretty much everything stated here about a 2.3 litre (thatís how we spell it Oz :p ) rebuild. I have considered a 2.5 stroked motor, but financially it is not viable. I have decided that the best thing for me is:

    Alpha-n or Motec with the CF Intake.
    Cams. I am thinking 284/276
    I will get some head work done to allow it to flow both in and out better.
    I already have a custom free flowing header and exhaust.

    What are your opinions on this to start with?

    Should I look at anything else that can be done whilst the motor is being rebuilt? I will do the standard maintenance items such as timing chain/piston rings etc. I have thought about 48mm throttle bodies, but am unsure of whether to stick with the 46mm ones.

    What sought of HP can be obtained from these motors in a NA form..

    Any advice and suggestions greatly appreciated.

    Cheers
    Dave


  • #2
    I might get bashed for this one, but this is my opinion. I decided to go the route you did, rebuild a 2.3L and mod it. If I had to do it again I would go 2.5L for sure. Talk the money from the AN, cams , and whatever other bolt ons you want and buy the turner 2.5 kit. YOu can always add a carbon airbox, AN, and cams down the raod without tearing your motor apart. I hope you understand where I am coming from. Its kind of a "when you are in there, you might want to think about...." thing. Hope that helps,

    ///Matt
    -Matt

    For Aftermarket Engine Management, Visit Electromotive Store:
    http://www.electromotivestore.com

    Own a shop and need a better website?
    PM me or Visit http://www.shop-websites.com

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with Matts M3- you may as well go 2.5 because you are already buying cams, having the head ported. Your only (big) cost difference is the crank and injectors. There should also be value in your old crank and injectors for someone and that would help offset costs. Another thing is that a 2.5 crank comes with bearings, so you wouldnt have to buy them like you would for a 2.3 rebuild......
      Charley Terhune
      89 Zinno M3- stock 90k miles
      89 Zinno M3- 2.5 etc. etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        I will argue the converse....there is no reason to go to a 2.5 if you have a running 2.3. Any mods you do to the 2.3 will work on the 2.5 (especially head work, cams, and alpha N). Once the bottom end breaks on a 2.3 then the decision to go to a 2.5 is a no brainer as the additional cost is only $1-2k. To build a 2.5 now would be a much more expensive proposition.

        if I were you:
        1. Schricks 284/276
        2. 48 mm throttle bodies
        3. Maxx with CF intake

        Headwork is not really needed unless you are making serious power (near 300 crank hp). Before then it is just hurting power.

        You just have intake issues since you have the header and exhaust.

        If you do the 2.5 kit and not do the cams, alpha n and throttle bodies you will have less power with the 2.5 vs where you would be with the 2.5.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bruce he is talking about rebuilding, not expanding on the engine he has now. Correct me if I am wrong.

          ///Matt
          -Matt

          For Aftermarket Engine Management, Visit Electromotive Store:
          http://www.electromotivestore.com

          Own a shop and need a better website?
          PM me or Visit http://www.shop-websites.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Matts M3
            Bruce he is talking about rebuilding, not expanding on the engine he has now. Correct me if I am wrong.

            ///Matt

            I think Bruce got it right:

            Originally posted by OZM3
            I have considered a 2.5 stroked motor, but financially it is not viable. I have decided that the best thing for me is:

            Alpha-n or Motec with the CF Intake.
            Cams. I am thinking 284/276
            I will get some head work done to allow it to flow both in and out better.
            I already have a custom free flowing header and exhaust.

            What are your opinions on this to start with?

            Should I look at anything else that can be done whilst the motor is being rebuilt? I will do the standard maintenance items such as timing chain/piston rings etc. I have thought about 48mm throttle bodies, but am unsure of whether to stick with the 46mm ones.

            What sought of HP can be obtained from these motors in a NA form..

            Any advice and suggestions greatly appreciated.

            Cheers
            Dave
            A friend will come bail you out of jail, but a TRUE friend will be sitting next to you in the jail cell saying, "Dude, that was focking awesome!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Well he does say rebuild....not sure what he means by rebuild. Guess we will have to wait til it is day time Down Under. :-)

              Comment


              • #8
                Morning all.

                Sorry for the confusion. I mean I am going to modify/expand on my current engine. It only has 80000 kilometres on it. What can I reasonably expect to achieve (HP wise) from the mods indicated. I would love to do the 2.5 litre conversion/build but also think I should wait till it is needed.

                Keep the advise coming.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would expect with cams, alpha n, throttle bodies and air box....I would expect at least 200 at the wheels. John will be able to give you a better estimate.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have 130K miles on my 2.3 S14 and it runs great. About 20K miles ago I installed Maxx AN +CF DTM airbox, 48mm TBs, Grp A header, 284/276 cams and HP jumped from 167 to 209rwhp. This is on an otherwise stock 2.3 with 120K miles on it at the time. Although it doesn't have the torque of the strokers, the 2.3 can make good power. I think it makes more sense to mod/run the 2.3 and get the most out of it until something happens and a rebuild is needed. Now when it come time for me to rebuild my engine, all I have to do is install the pistons, crank and get the headwork done to complete my high HP 2.5 rebuild.

                    88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
                    89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
                    85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
                    91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bruce
                      I would expect with cams, alpha n, throttle bodies and air box....I would expect at least 200 at the wheels. John will be able to give you a better estimate.
                      I hit 200whp with just the cams and a homemade MAF conversion with a cone filter. Engine is stock 2.3 with 124k miles

                      T

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Reelizmpro
                        I have 130K miles on my 2.3 S14 and it runs great. About 20K miles ago I installed Maxx AN +CF DTM airbox, 48mm TBs, Grp A header, 284/276 cams and HP jumped from 167 to 209rwhp. This is on an otherwise stock 2.3 with 120K miles on it at the time. Although it doesn't have the torque of the strokers, the 2.3 can make good power. I think it makes more sense to mod/run the 2.3 and get the most out of it until something happens and a rebuild is needed. Now when it come time for me to rebuild my engine, all I have to do is install the pistons, crank and get the headwork done to complete my high HP 2.5 rebuild.
                        I can't wait to get to the dyno, we have the exact same engine less the LENZ of course.

                        T

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          i have a 2.3L with e3/e2 cams....A-N....headwork....other "minor" mods....and 130k miles(it feels a little tired)

                          I pulled 175hp on a dyno that 3.0L e36 m3's regularly pull 170hp on....so regardless of whatever some of the haters have to say about it...that over 240 crank....

                          My brother has a 2.3L with e2 cam and SS Maf kit....other "minor" mods....and 90k miles(doesnt feel tired)....he pulled 165 and more torque than mine at a lower rpm....hes at about 230ish crank

                          Theres a thread on it somewhere....search it up

                          I agree with the other suggestions on staying 2.3L and do bolt ons that you would want for later when you go 2.5

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OZ,

                            I'm in the middle of a long and expensive 2.5 rebuild. Trust me - you don't want this pain unless it's absolutely necessary. (FYI - I turned my rod bearings at 80K miles, hense the rebuild.)

                            Unless you have bad compression and leak-down numbers, opening up a perfectly good 2.3 is silly. Want to mod it? Great! But start will engine monitoring systems. Start with an oil pressure gauge, a WB02 sensor and four EGT gauges. Dump the AFM and buy a Maxx A-N or a Lenz (I consider this mod an engine safety item b/c our stock ECU is so 'basic'). Use the WB02 to setup your Maxx or Lenz.

                            284/276 cams? Sure - don't forget new valve springs. 48 MM TB's? Sure. C/F airbox? You'll need it with the Maxx or Lenz. As to the head porting, I've just spent waaaaaayyyy too much (time and money) on head work. Don't do this until you rebuild the whole engine.

                            In short - don't open it up unnecessarily and in the meantime don't install any mod that you can't reuse on a 2.5 if the day ever comes. If you can monitor what your engine is doing, that day may never come. And that is a good thing! Focus on extracting the most power *safely* out of the displacement you have.

                            Just my .02

                            -Dietrich

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              How did Tony's cams/MAF setup get 25 rwhp more than Adams A/N/cams setup? Do the bigger cams make that much of a difference or was there something else involved?

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