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Ever raced a 190?

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  • Ever raced a 190?

    I joined a 190 board just to learn more about the 190 2.3_16's, 2.6, Evo 2's etc and noticed a couple of kills stories involving E30 M3's and even euro spec E36 M3's! Just wondering if you guys have ever seen a 190 autocrossing or roadracing?

    88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
    89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
    85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
    91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH



  • #2
    i saw a evo 1 roadracing, it didnt pretty good, i dont think it could take an e30 m3 stock for stock, but it would hang pretty close. in a straight line i dont know. my friend used to have a 2.3 and it was kinda slow compared to my m3, but he then got a 2.5 and it was closer yet no cigar. im sure they evo ones and twos are faster then the 2.6 and 2.3. i really like the look of the evo one with evo 2 rims. the evo just has too much body armor
    "Just road, seat, ASS; THE END!" - Jeremy Clarkson
    "If you had a choice between a million dollars and world peace, what would you get for your E30 M3?" - ItsNotTheNissan
    onfirelabs.com twitter.com/suga_shane

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    • #3
      From what I've gathered the 2.3_16 is 185hp, 2.5_16 is 205HP, 2.6 160hp and evo 2 2.5_16 is 235HP. Since they are all 4 doors, they weigh approx. 200lbs more than the E30 M3. I just have a hard time believing most of their "kill" stories.

      88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
      89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
      85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
      91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH


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      • #4
        ive driven 2.3's and 2.6's, neither evos, but they are just as fast as a 325e, definitely not an m3.



        looks better than it runs :/

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        • #5
          Im trying to buy one from this guy right now. It is an 85 straight from Germany. He just moved here ARMY or something, anyways all it does it sit and sit rotting away. It still has the euro tags full nine yards. The main two reasons I want it is because I need a daily driver, and it has full WOOD MOMO interior. EVEN the damn steering wheel. What you think I should offer? He keeps telling me to wait incase his son or some shit wants it.

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          • #6
            that would be a nice car to get for a daily driver for sure. not sure what a euro is worth though. i think the north american ones are hovering around the 7-10k region. but im not expert on the topic so take that with a grain of salt. im sure its a very nice car though. get us some picks if you can.



            looks better than it runs :/

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            • #7
              i love the evo def a nice car, seen a few on the road but never at a race

              Shes sold now :(

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              • #8
                I drove my friends 190 2,3 16V, time ago

                They are slower than a M3 everywhere.
                They are very robust; The one my friend has, chain dies with
                310000km, now it runs again

                Suspension is way comfortably, but you can get "fast"
                Its a nice daily driver I think.

                Daniel
                www.m3e30.ch

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ROB89M3
                  Reelizmpro
                  What's the website for the 190 ?
                  They are cool cars ! I was looking at buying A black AMG one before my M3.
                  They are a VERY small community of 190 enthusiasts and they view most E30 M3 owners as arrogant snobs. Apparently, they didn't like the way they were treated at last years SIG fest west and that seems to have validated everything. I like the 190 2.3-16's and evo models. They are certainly rare cars (close ratio 5spds too) and very different for MB. Anyway, the site is 190revolution.net.

                  88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
                  89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
                  85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
                  91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I had a stint with an 190 2.3 16v when I first got my M3. The M3 was stock and I think the 190 was moddified; at least full suspension.

                    Suffice it to say it was a fast car... faster than my stock M3... on the highway.

                    /// M3NTAL Kev

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                    • #11
                      Never really fully raced one, but for a few months on my way to work i used to "race" (more like drive fast together) on teh west side highway.

                      The 190 is definitely not as fast as an e30. Its a nice looking for a 4-door. And it doenst handle nearly as well as an e30...

                      The guy i was racing used to try hard to stay in front of me....and I'd barely try....when i did try he wasnt close...

                      Again this wasnt really full out racing...but you get the idea...

                      I plan on buying a 190 2.5_16v one day to next to my e30 m3...both fully raced out and made to look like they did in the DTM series....

                      ONE DAY....

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                      • #12
                        when I was in High school my friends mother had an '86 with about 130k on it by then, she bought it new. I used to drive it around literally about 100 miles a week for like two months.

                        It's pretty quick, at least I thought so when I was 16. I loved the close ratio gearbox, and I remember mostly that it was really smooth. Much smoother than the M3. It was like an M3 luxury car. It has quieter, smoother, and a little more boat like. It was a sweet car though, and it was like one of the first cars that I ever really drove and had a good time driving.

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                        • #13
                          I think this will give you guys a better idea about the 190E 16V's. I thought about getting one as a daily driver, and i realized it'll never come close to the E30M3 in terms of performance.

                          QUote from Dick Chiang from DynoSpotRacing3

                          Sadly, The 190-16V is super detuned in the US and with it non-programmable CIS, no power can be made without some sort of modern engine management. Heavily modded 2.6's (272 cams, headers, ported head) dyno in @ a whopping 160 HP @ the wheels!
                          Quote from a former owner of a 2.3 16v

                          I've had a 190E 2.3-16. Nice when it ran but unfortunately, my mechanic knows more of the car than I do! IMHO, the E30M3 is so much more fun to drive!...and its faster!
                          Don Fields long write up on the 2.3 16v.

                          >-- Original Message --
                          >From: "D & B Fields"

                          >I have also worked on a few 2.3-16's. Had 4 of them as customers at one point. The Benz is QUITE a different automobile. Whilst a direct
                          compare will not be fair it is inevitable. The BMW starts from a different place and is MUCH closer to it's racing
                          brethern (albeit that's a gulf away) than the Benz. The Benz is much
                          more luxuriously apointed. This Benz chassis is one of my least
                          favorite. I still
                          maintain that the 126 and all it's eterations was thier best.

                          My gripes/concerns are:

                          Gearbox is tantamount to that of an old 60's American hot rod. It uses external shifting rods and ALL of the slop and play that goes with them. (Hey Brett did the Holdens use the horrible GM boxes?) Some models had a camshaft driven hydraulic pump for use in the self
                          leveling. Self leveling is EXPENSIVE to fix (Benz is much more reliable than BMW) and somewhat problematic. I did hear once of that pump siezing and snaping the cam. The climate control is in the usual benz complication. When it works,
                          it's great! When it's broke you may need a pushbutton panel, or an
                          amplifier, or a computer, or perhaps just an aspirator motor. Too
                          complicated a system fo a car so far down the line.
                          The engine is buzzy. Yeah I know...the S-14 ain't quiet. It's just that the BMW has that sweet song to it. (enter bias here) The Benz has a rude low frequency noise and sounds unwilling in it's quest through the rev range.

                          It does however deal out quite a bit more torque than the bimmer. Consequently it breathes lesser on top. Whilst the build quality is good the overall feel is numb (enter why we like bimmers. You wear em') or perhaps... (bias again) just imagine taking a big BMW and shrinking it down in some marvelous machine. Then only to find
                          out that it doesn't work. That is what the Benz feels like to me. Feels like a 126 chassis with the 5.6l motor shrunk down and tanky. Get a real race car and the likes of Ludwig and it's another story...
                          Is there any other color other than Bronzit?????

                          In summary it's not horible, I dont like em'!! There I've said it. Now talk about a 1st. generation 500E and I'll tell you how much better/nicer it is than my E-28 M-5. A true "gentlemans hot rod". Go find out for yourself and form your own opinions. Do yourself a favor, as with any prospective purchace. Take a very long test drive AND have it checked out by someone who knows the car.
                          >
                          >Don Fields

                          Another quote from a former owner

                          Gruppe,
                          Wow, a topic I can comment on, rather than simply ask about. OK, I had an '86 US model that I fell into, and really enjoyed, for the
                          most part. Mine was that old looking "bronze" color, but they were
                          available in black also.
                          They are a CIS injected car, rather than Motronic, so it doesn't run in as refined a manner as the M3. (Wierd idle problems and problems settling back to idle)
                          The US model was restricted to 172hp by the US emissions and other things. The way this happened was through the exhaust, fuel injection, and compression ratio, IIRC. The euro model had 192hp, which puts it in much better standing in comparison to the M3. Plus it really is much happier at high revs than the US car.
                          They were avaialable as auto or manual in the US. Mine was a manual (close ration, dog-leg 1st). Yes the linkage has an odd feel, but shorten the lever and it improves slightly, and get a reasonable shift knob too. As with many cars you need to find the right combination of parts to make it work right. But with the 190 16v, there are fewer people to ask, it seems. Possibly 'cos there are fewer of the 190 16v's than M3's.
                          In order to make the car the way you (probably) really want, here is the "secret recipe" Euro 190 16v, black
                          Bilstein Sport shocks all around, but the rears are for a 500e ;-) Eibach springs all around Eibach rear sway bar, if you can find someone to sell it to you alone. 500e front sway bar and brackets/bushings, but cut 2" off each end and then
                          mount the right side bracket on the left and vice versa.
                          You'll also need a block off plate for the self levelling pump. (Bekkers) Then as a last step, take the brakes from a 500e and put them on the front. Later, when the engine gets a little tired, make it a 2.6, much like the 2.5 kit for the M3.
                          Really it's a great car, but the euro car is more desirable in my opinion (20hp). Plus, who cares if a car is grey market anymore, you probably won't have it dealer serviced anyway, right? Don't, 'cos like the M3, most dealers don't understand them anymore.
                          It would be a great compliment to your M3, as a daily driver. But make sure you keep them separated. I had to break up many arguments.;-) Good luck.
                          >

                          90 Sterling 2.5L E30///M3 lifer
                          97 Porsche Carrera S
                          13 Audi S6
                          SOLD 03 Audi RS6 daily
                          GONE 88 E28///M5 project

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                          • #14
                            the thing is most of these guys commented on the 2.6, if memory servse me correc, thats a slow model. the 16v evos are the top of the line and i doubt to many americans have ever seen one of those in person.
                            "Just road, seat, ASS; THE END!" - Jeremy Clarkson
                            "If you had a choice between a million dollars and world peace, what would you get for your E30 M3?" - ItsNotTheNissan
                            onfirelabs.com twitter.com/suga_shane

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mrsha007
                              the thing is most of these guys commented on the 2.6, if memory servse me correc, thats a slow model. the 16v evos are the top of the line and i doubt to many americans have ever seen one of those in person.
                              at least in my posts, all the people commenting on a 2.6 were talking about a 2.3L 16V stroked to a 2.6L. The stock 190E 2.6 was a 6 cylinder that is not nearly as sporty as the 16v. I have never seen the REAL 2.5L 16V Evo model. That thing is a monster and like the E30M3 evoIII, it never came out in the U.S. I wish i had a real 2.5L 16V evo in my garage .

                              90 Sterling 2.5L E30///M3 lifer
                              97 Porsche Carrera S
                              13 Audi S6
                              SOLD 03 Audi RS6 daily
                              GONE 88 E28///M5 project

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