E30 Motor Swaps

[S14Bandit]

i've seen a variety of BMW motors swapped into E30's, including a bmw V12 in a E30 325. E34 M5 & E36 M3 motors swapped into E30 M3's...but this interested me most..i stumbled onto these pics at another forum....this motor is very similiar in character too the S14...high revving 4-cyl, and is pretty reliable..what do you guys all think of this Swap...Honda S2000's F20C1 in an E30. 2.0L 16V DOHC, 1997CC. 9000RPM redline, [email protected], [email protected], 11.0:1 Comp. Ratio, Bore/Stroke 87X84.





:idea: "flamesuit" on.

[Stan]

They drive very differently than most BMWs. S2000s feel weak below 6000 RPMs and strong above that point. Sorta like a Miata below 6k that turns into a Boxter S up high. To get those 5 second 0-60s in an S2K you have to side step the clutch at about 7000 RPMs. If you don't they turn into 6.5-7 second cars.

The very similar engine in the RSX-S has more low and midrange because they use i-vtec which adds a vanos-like feature to regular vtec. Those lumps also have an easier to tweak ECU and between the aformentioned and cams, intake etc some have gotten 265 RWHP out of them per one tuner. I don't think such an engine will last nearly as long as most BMW or Honda motors.

Stan

[AlexMc]

The only reason i could imagine this swap would be if you stumbled upon this motor for a VERY inexpensive price, ie stolen.

[S14Bandit]

you are right stan, they do drive differently then most BMW engines, but the F20 is similiar too the S14...which also doesnt come too life till about 4K RPM. i have no problems winding out a motor to get the best of it,the F20 would be great for road racing. despite what most ppl think, the F20 has a relativly flat torque curve.

AlexMc...the reason this swap interests me is because the motor is similiar in character too the S14, its also cheaper and lighter then an S52 which makes the same peak HP in stock form(unless its an S52 out an M Coupe, those make about 260BHP). an F20C1(albeit being a Honda motor) swapped into an E30 M3 makes more sense too me then an S50/S52 swap.

[SeattleE30///M3]

Does it use the S2000 Tranny as well. Damn, I would love to play with honda's tranny in an E30 M3. I love the NSX, Integra, and generally most honda shifters. They are so tight and the throws are so short! Having a F20 in an E30 M3 would be very cool IMO. I agree that they are similar in design philosophy. I wonder how well the car runs. I imagine the engine is lighter as well. How much does a F20 run anyways? i hear they are quite expensive. Someone in Japan put a F20 in an AE86 and I guess it is quite impressive. But i imagine an AE86 is much lighter than a S2000. I believe the S2000 and E30 M3 are pretty close in weight.

[S14Bandit]

S2000 Motor, tranny, ecu, harness with roughly 20-20K miles will run anywhere btwn 6-8grand from what i've been seeing, which is pretty cheap considering what you are getting.

[AlexMc]

How on earth can you even say "the F20 swap makes more sense than an S50 swap.. " that's ridiculous, those are two TOTALLY different motors and the goals of the owners who make those seperate decisions are clearly very unalike. The F20 has even less torque than the S14... why is that a sensible swap? put a 2.5 bottom end on it and away you go.

[S14Bandit]

the F20 only makes less peak torque then an S14, it has a much flatter torque curve, and essentially puts down more effective torque at the wheels...as it makes 240Hp vs the S14's 195HP. TorquexRPM/5252=HP. i say the F20 makes more sense because it is cheaper and lighter, which is a plus for handling, high redline=plus for road racing..which is what the E30 M3 does best. check the dyno sheets i posted above, and now look at this dyno sheet of an S14 which also makes close too 200WHP, you can see peak torque is greater, but the torque curve is far from being, which means most of the time you are making more torque with the F20 then you are with the S14, albeit peak torque is not as high.
it comes down too different strokes for different folks, the fact that an F20 swap is cheaper then a S52 swap, the motor is lighter(hence retaining balance), and they both make 240HP, but the F20 is closer in character too the S14..tells me that an F20 Swap makes more sense then an S50 swap. and like i said...peak torque doesnt mean much..i much rather prefer flat torque curves...compare this 196whop S14 motor too the 196whp F20(stock) motor....

[S14Bandit]

and BTW, i dont care much for low end torque either, as the S14 isnt a motor that has much life at the low end, the F20 makes perfect sense.

[SeattleE30///M3]

I personally, at this time, would prefer the F20 than an S50/S52 due because of its lighter weight, high rpm HP motor, and 9K rpm. It seems to me that it is closer in design philosophy to what BMW ///M wanted for the E30 M3.

I haven't driven either, and probably never will, so my opinion don't mean squat. But I posted anyways

[ADA///M]

You let me know how its cheaper to put that engine in an e30 than an e36....the e36 swap is much easier...

[pete98m3]

i would imagine that that motor is somewhat tapped out as well... 11:1 9000 rpms... gonna be tough to get any more power on pump. so if your happy with 240 horse then i guess it could make sense.

i'd rather have a 2.5L s14 for correctness or a s52 though any day, hell, i beat more then my share of s2000's in my heavy ass e36... not to mention that that motor is so top end oriented that without very good gearing it can be difficult to keep it on the powerband in some places on some tracks.

[S14Bandit]

for starters...and S2K is quicker then an E36 M3 stock-vs-stock. E36's run more consistant times at the drag strip, but i have yet too see a stock E36 break into 13's, i've seen several S2K's running high 13's stock. 2nd, get a supercharger(there are a few Blowers for the s2k)and you are making close too 100WHP more then stock, i dont buy the "its close too its limit" jiberish, as its the same thing they say about the E46 M3 motor(S54)...close too its limit with 333HP, Ex M-engineer Nowack now tunes cars, he has tuned a S54 too make 405HP without forced induction. in fact Bimmer Mag. just recently said the S14 is close too its limit @ 195HP, but as we all know there is much more power too be found.

ADA...find me an E36 Motor, Tranny, Harness, & ECU for 6grand, i cant..but i have found several s2k motor/tranny/ecu/harness deals ranging btwn 5-8grand, all with 20-35K miles on them.

anyhow, i knew this would turn into a flamewar, the F20 remains true too the E30's character, while the S50/S52 Motors do not. for track use F20 is a better motor in my opinion, if you are out there strictly for POWER, then S52 is a better swap, as it's max tunning potential is more then likly greater then an F20 due too its greater displacment and amnt of cylinders.

[AlexMc]

a) the S2000 is no quicker than an E36 M# stock for stock, these cars are very equal- the S2000 has no clear advantage. b) yes the S2000 motor is about "tapped out".. you won't get more than a couple ponies from NA tuning, and the supercharger is a JOKE! Don't you read the tests on these things? Christ they are like .3 faster in the 1/4, with 100 more WHP? Thats weak as balls. c) Nowack's 400hp motor is a race motor with a short life.. their street tuned version is around 375, which is only 35 more HP than a euro S54. d) if you can't find a complete drivetrain E36 M3 for $6k then you haven't been looking.. $6000 is high!

[S14Bandit]

S2000 is quicker then an E36 M3, you are diluted..or you just dont look into the S2K much, E36 is easier to drive and more consistent...but like i said..i have yet too see a stock E36 run a 13sec 1/4, i've seen several bone stock S2K's run 13.7-13.9 1/4's. as for the blowers..they arnt a joke..what are you a mag racer? again most S2K's with blowers run high 12's...yes High 12's...thats E46 territory. you should check out S2Ki.Com and learn about the S2K, and quit mag racing. many people have ran 12's with supercharged S2000's. Now if yu can find me a S52, Harness, ECU & Tranny with less then 30K miles...for 6grand..please tell me where i can get this.

since you think supercharged S2000'sare only .2 tenths quicker then stock...you are obviously mag racing, so by your logic...S2000 runs high 15's, after all when car and driver first ran the S2000, the ran a 15.7 1/4. like i said...high 13's is what the S2K is capable of stock..high 13's=quicker then E36 M3 which runs low 14's. and supercharged S2K's are running 12's all day...check out some S2K forums..and take a look at some of the timeslips they post, or better yet..go check out some local drag events. last year at English town there was a stock S2K which ran 3 times....14.2, 14.1 and 13.9, there was also an E46 M3 that ran a 15.3, i'm sure you dont believe an E46 is only capable of a 15.3, they are consistent low 13sec cars, but a couple have broke 12's with stock E46 M3's.