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  • cold start with Maxx alpha-n

    Hello, must say that I'm extremely impressed with the Maxx Alpha-N system, combined with my 2.5(thanks Apex Motorsports) 284/276 Schricks, 48 tb's, my engine now screams!!! The only issue I have is cold start up, my Idle is rough, and lean, until the stock 02 comes on and richens things up. This is the only time my wbo2 reads lean at all! What is the fix for this. It's not even cold outside! Also I must say I'm extremely pleased with my wbo2 system from Innovate Motorsports! Very easy to hook up to the Maxx connector, downloadable graphing, color selection, min./max. alarms, etc. All in a beautiful round gauge!

  • #2
    I have the same problem, my cold start with the alpha/n is just horrible until the stock O2 comes on. It's barely even driveabe...hope someone chimes in here, I'm with erik on this one...

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    • #3
      Hello 1990m3, have you talked to John about this yet? How long has your Maxx system been on the car?

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      • #4
        I actually have a hot start problem, haha. When it's really hot outside (~100) it will have a hard time starting. This afernoon I had to restart twice before it would idle. MY theory is that the temp sensor gets very hot sitting under the hood...much hotter than the incoming air. So the temp sensor is reading the wrong temp until the engine can suck air past it and get it to the right temp. Does this sound correct?
        "It is needless to say that self-propelling vehicles, like other machines, will never do as much for one who does not understand them as for one who does."

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        • #5
          well it might sound correct for your problem Alpine, but erik and I have the opposite problem

          When the car hasn't been driven for long enough that the temp gauge is dead cold, it just runs like crap, until the O2 sensor starts working, which is usually about when the needle leaves the "blue" zone of the gauge.

          erik -- I haven't spoken with John about it yet, MAXX has been on the car for about 8 weeks. I'm getting it tuned on a dyno in two weeks, I figure I must have botched something and it will hopefully be fixed then. I'm going to try a few different idle maps tomorrow after work and see if anything gets better.

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          • #6
            I do remember John posting a procudure to set the AFRs during warm up, but I don't remember where...if you do lots of searching you might find it...I just vaguely remember the post.
            "It is needless to say that self-propelling vehicles, like other machines, will never do as much for one who does not understand them as for one who does."

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            • #7
              I always figured it was running too rich instead of lean with the cold starts since the DME keeps those injectors open longer on cold starts with AFM, it's no different with Alpha N. As far as the DME is concerned, it's still running an AFM. Those lower TP/RPM values are pretty rich also. How did you know it was running lean on cold starts if the sensors don't read properly until warmed up?

              88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
              89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
              85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
              91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH


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              • #8
                Hello Barry, the problem is you are getting much more air, so even if the stock ecu does enrichen, It's still not enough. The way I know is I also have a wbo2 system running, and it warms up in about thirty seconds and tells me precisely where I'm running! I have searched more thoroughly and found some threads from John about settings during warmup, and how It will take a few tries to perfect!

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                • #9
                  That makes sense but still, it seems to me you'd have to run everything on the rich side of things so that when you do have a cold start the DME's extra cold start fuel will make it more driveable when cold. The thing is it's only cold for a few minutes if that, while most of the time the engine is warmed up. I've always had this cold start "problem" but never considered it an issue since I baby the car when it's cold anyway. I suppose you could find a good balance but you'll be running richer than you need to be across the board for the sake of a better 2 minute cold start.

                  88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/M TECH
                  89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/SCHWARZ
                  85 323I S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZ
                  91 M TECHNIC TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH


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                  • #10
                    Exactly Barry! My deal, is my motor is still relatively new, and I do enjoy high maintenance-Ie, keeping things nice, so I'm not interested in putting my car through a rough/lean start up, as I'm pretty sure there is another fix, that people must be using in colder climate areas, otherwise I suppose you could wire in a potentiometer to your water temp sensor and have that on a dial inside your cab to be used only for cold startup, to fool the sensor into thinking it is much colder than it is, thereby richening up the mixture.

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                    • #11
                      After thinking on it for awhile, and a cold beer, I also suppose you could just enrichen your idle a bit, and see if that helps.

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                      • #12
                        I use the NBsim from the techedge instead the stock sensor.
                        It warms up much quicker and the Lambda control is able to pull the values long before the temp goes into the blue field in the gauge.
                        I do agree that it runs lean when cold. When I tune the map for good cold start it's way rich (11-12) when the car is warmed on small throttle openings.
                        I have made some corrections to the map on low throttle (14.5-15) but this values are out of the Lambda correction window when cold. Engine starts fine but for the first 2mins of drive I can see very lean (17-18!) readings in some throttle areas. Not a major problem for me, but I wouldn't expect that someone else would be able to deal with this if I gave him my car keys. I just avoid that particular area for 1 mile and with some engine temp things are fine.


                        Goodbye M3, you served me well.

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                        • #13
                          Tjeezz,

                          Talking about recognizing problems: this has been haunting me since day 1! I do not drive my car much and cold starts have always been lean. Might sound strange, but it's good to hear this is 'normal'!!

                          I will use the same solution as Uwe once I get that [email protected][email protected]$ TE 2E0 working properly.

                          Regards,

                          Adwo

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adwo
                            Tjeezz,

                            Talking about recognizing problems: this has been haunting me since day 1! I do not drive my car much and cold starts have always been lean. Might sound strange, but it's good to hear this is 'normal'!!

                            I will use the same solution as Uwe once I get that [email protected][email protected]$ TE 2E0 working properly.

                            Regards,

                            Adwo
                            So you wouldn't recommend 2E0 ?


                            Goodbye M3, you served me well.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thats strange. When I first start my car it runs rich, around 12 AFR at idle. you can tell when
                              the first 2 minutes are up. I have AN lambda running and after a a few minutes it is controlling
                              AFR to around 14.7 at idle.

                              At the Ring I have AN lambda off. When I start up in the morning, I also get 12 AFR at idle.
                              when I drive off at low part throttles Im still rich. This then eventually leans out to around
                              15 at the low part throttle sites. I have not been paying close attention to the open loop tuning
                              lately, an ocaisional glance at WOT or PT indicates its doing ok. When AN lambda is on,
                              then its doing what its supposed to at PT.

                              if anyone can send me a LOG file AND their MAP (*.ANT) file,
                              Ill look into it. Ideally, you have your WBO2 hooked to the AN harness ("pin F").
                              That way I can see your AFR in the log file (make sure to select this in the "parameters page").

                              Please log about 5-10 minutes from cold:
                              a) a brief period of IDLE only (e.g. 1 minute)
                              b) drive off using low PT. try to get into 3rd gear so the rpms are low and maintain a steady
                              throttle for about 20-30 seconds so we can see what the AFR is doing during this phase.

                              If you have NBsim hooked up, then additionally, make a second log (again from cold)
                              repeat the above. You will have to have AN-lambda switched on (F10 button).
                              the stock sensor must be disconnected from the engine harness.

                              you can also try to enrich the ICV map some (outside the -4...+4 range) at the region where
                              the cursor is when cold. Dont touch the other areas.

                              I had to make several adjustments (over different days) to the
                              main bypass screw, ICV map and fuel map (TPS=12%, RPM=960) to get things right.
                              So it is a bit of an iterative process. You should neithr have the bypass fully open or fully closed.

                              Lambda control will help, but its not the real solution to the problem.

                              John

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