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Rebuild 2014 (aka E30 M3 v4.1)

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  • Taper
    replied
    Nice car

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  • norMcal
    replied
    Originally posted by Bruce View Post
    I think the BMW marketing that says the S65 is lighter than the S54 is comparing short block to short block (bottom end only). Add 2 heads, etc etc etc the weight of a ready to run S65 weighs more than a ready to run S54. Yes BMW is making apples to apples comparison but apple cores to apple cores, when the audience is assuming ready to run is a bit misleading.

    Ordered a stock car style front sway bar. Hope to get it installed this week and run it at Barber over Memorial Day weekend.

    Crack in S52 block? Kind of an expensive fix. The S54 electronics to run the motor is more expensive but a lot cheaper than when I put in an S54 only a few years ago. A fully built S52 is about 40 hp down on a tune only S54. I'd personally do an S54. The flywheel back can be reused from your S52.
    Got to love marketing! Thanks for clarification, I figured I was missing something on the weight differences.

    I really would love to do the S54, but being that it is a CA smog legal S52 conversion, I would pretty much forfeit all the effort of getting to that point. It could very well be that the smog stations would not realize the difference between the 2 engines when I smog it, since I have the BAR sticker that says it is converted to a I-6. So I might be able to get around it, but what if not? I would hate to spend all that money on a S54 conversion, and then not being able to register it anymore. Right now I am leaning towards building a more balanced S52 with some lightened and upgraded internals, one that might rev a bit freer and higher. I'm still waiting to see what the quote is for all that work. If it is too high, then I will go S54 and worst comes to worst either make it a dedicated track car or sell it out of state.

    Good luck with your sway bar. Hope it improves the handling.

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  • Bruce
    replied
    I think the BMW marketing that says the S65 is lighter than the S54 is comparing short block to short block (bottom end only). Add 2 heads, etc etc etc the weight of a ready to run S65 weighs more than a ready to run S54. Yes BMW is making apples to apples comparison but apple cores to apple cores, when the audience is assuming ready to run is a bit misleading.

    Ordered a stock car style front sway bar. Hope to get it installed this week and run it at Barber over Memorial Day weekend.

    Crack in S52 block? Kind of an expensive fix. The S54 electronics to run the motor is more expensive but a lot cheaper than when I put in an S54 only a few years ago. A fully built S52 is about 40 hp down on a tune only S54. I'd personally do an S54. The flywheel back can be reused from your S52.

    Leave a comment:


  • norMcal
    replied
    What an undertaking! I always wondered what it would take to put a S65 in there. Since the V10's have been transplanted successfully I figured this would be the easier, and also thought this engine was lighter than the S54 (aluminum block). Why is it so much heavier? Because of the tranny? Based on your times and experience so far, it looks like the hp has outgrown the chassis. I will take your advise and not ever do this ;-)

    You seem to have had your share of engine failures. Speaking of which, I just blew my S52 last week. It appears to be a crack in the block. Based on all your experiences, what would you do, fix the S52, or go for a S54? I would not want to move it back like you did though. I would go with the arc asylum modified oil pan and sub frame.

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  • Bruce
    replied
    Friday we went to the dyno. It was a Dynojet at True Street Motorsports in McKinney, Texas. Mods to the motor are minimal- no PS pump, no AC compressor, Macht Schnell intake (no air box, no heat shielding under hood), headers are stock but cylinder 8 tube is modified to clear the steering linkage, custom header back exhaust that you can see in the above pics. Stock E90 M3 FW, clutch and 6 speed into an E30 M3 4.10 diff. Did 3 pulls. 1st pull the tires spun on the rollers. 2nd and 3rd pull were nearly identical at 379 RWHP and 261 ft lbs (SAE correction with smoothing of 5).

    Saturday- race at MSR Cresson. Practice session was first time this engine was on track at speed. Feeling car out. Had ABS issue as it turns out. Did a 1:25. With S54 (and 50 less HP) I was around 1:22 last year IIRC. Last time car ran at COTA it was wet- I softened suspension and don't think I put it back so I put 2 clicks of compression in all 4 corners. 2nd session was qual. Pushing the car more it was oversteery everywhere. No bite on turn in and power oversteer at will (duh). Did a 1:22...going in the right direction as far as time goes but car just doesn't feel good. 3rd session is first race. I start at back because I don't feel confident. Did a 1:23 in the race. 4th session was another race. Best time was a 1:25- going in wrong direction. Had a tank slapped in lap 3 that I was able to save. Same spot in lap 4 I wasn't able to save that tank slapper.

    Sunday- qualifying and 1 hour enduro. Overnight I remembered I pulled out all the wing(it was set to flat), so I put in 7 degrees of wing. Car felt better but still 1:25. Enduro- we put more wing and took out some compression in front. At the pit stop the fronts were at 35 psi and the rears at 39 (target for Hoosier R100 slicks are 30). Lowered the pressure to 30. Set fastest lap after pit stop but still only a 1:24.

    I think the suspension needs to be retuned. I probably need to rebuild this suspension and revisit the spring rates and sway bars (front is stock E30 M3 but relocated due to motor swap, not running a rear bar). Would really prefer to replace suspension with MCS but that isn't in the financial budget.

    Probably just park the car for a bit and revisit it with fresh thoughts later. Probably not race it again until October at TWS.

    Not fully healed thumb was a non issue.

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  • jibbajabba
    replied
    I admire the dedication and willingness to open the check book! Cheers to a speed recovery of the thumb
    !

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  • Bruce
    started a topic Rebuild 2014 (aka E30 M3 v4.1)

    Rebuild 2014 (aka E30 M3 v4.1)

    Special thanks to Randy at Epic Motorsports for getting the stock MSS60 ECU to run the motor in the E30 chassis.



    E30 M3 v1.0- stock S14....bought the car this way with a blown motor
    E30 M3 v2.0- Euro 3.2- this is the first motor swap I did. Last 5 years before I removed it and sold it
    E30 M3 v3.0, 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3- S54- firewall moved back to move motor back 5.5 inches so the dual sump pan could be kept. V3.0 met its demise at VIR where the #5 rod bolt failed (spun bearing? Dunno) and put 4 holes in the block- out both sides and into each adjoinding cylinder). V3.1 just kinda died- appeared to have overheated for some reason...root cause never determined. Took it out and rebuilt it. V3.2 died at High Plains Raceway outside Denver. Either a valve keeper broke or the 6th cylinder valves failed. Died with a whimper.
    E30 M3 v4.0 and 4.1- S65 as documented here. V4.0 was still born. Failed idling in the driveway. Appears injector 2 stuck open and washed the cylinder bore and destroyed it. Could be rebuilt but needs to be sleeved. This is v4.1.

    For those of you thinking about doing this...DON'T. 1. it makes my car less unique, and 2. it isn't easy. I6 swaps (which this chassis had 2 of- Euro 3.2 and an S54) are so much easier. You have been warned.

    The donor motor was from a 2008 E90 M3 6 speed with 59k miles on it that was totalled in a accident that caused the left front suspension to be removed from the car and the front subframe to be damaged. Overall the chassis wasn't that badly damaged.


    The weight of the E30 M3 race car that had an S54 in it (but moved 5.5 back in the chassis) was 2398 ready to race with a full fuel cell but no driver. The weight difference between the S54 and 5 speed and the S65 and 6 speed was around 120 pounds more for the S65. Only real weight saving measure on the S54 was the 5 speed gearbox and the BimmerWorld strapless flywheel and clutch setup.

    So we are going to stick this in there?


    Seriously???


    First test fit



    The transmission is ginormous. This isn't all of the tranny tunnel that had to get cut back.




    Tight fit but look good in there.


    This is where all the problems start. From the other pics you could see that I had the brake master cylinders mounted on the engine side of the firewall. This didn't work, so I had to change to inside mounts. Going to try to create an access door from above to help with getting at master cylinders in and out (and adjusting bias if need be). This pic in looking straight down the firewall.


    The other issue with this swap is the steering column and the driver's side headers. They all like to occupy the same space. Had to go with a steering linkage from The Arc Asylum to help clear the headers. This swap is not possible with a stock linkage.

    Speaking of The Arc Asylum...I needed a modified subframe from them which you can see in this pic. This was early in the motor arm fabrication phase, the motor moved back another couple inches from when this pic was taken.


    This is the motor located in the chassis and supported from above (but fully able to move any direction to get the motor exactly right). You can see the mark in the 2nd pic on the crank nut that showed the center on the motor. We measured repeatedly from side to side to keep this line in the middle of the car.


    The initial fabrication of the passenger side motor arm (done with paper). Then in metal tacked to the motor mount.


    Crappy pic but this is where you can see the space constraints on the driver's side with the steering column and headers.


    Driver's side motor arm taking shape.


    Passenger side motor arm half way finished.


    This is where the motor arms are half way finished and the motor can actually sit on the arms.


    Tranny mount taking shape



    So all that I typed up while still working on. Fast forward some. Got it in and running but had an injector problem (most likely self inflicted) that took that motor out. Bought a new motor.

    So....fast forward to now. Actually these are work in progress pics but show the details.

    Motor in car with powder coated subframe, engine motor arms and tranny mount.


    Tranny mount specifically.


    Exhaust front


    exhaust rear



    Engine in



    Where are we now? Went to as dyno Friday but wasn't able to get it tuned. Runs a bit rich but not bad. Dyno was a dynocom. FWIW (not much) stock S54s put out 270 on this dyno, stock E9x M3s do 330-340. Tuned E9x M3s do 400. Best run was 420.

    It was the plan to run a DE next weekend to shake it down then race at the Texas Trifecta II at Circuit of the Americas March 21-23, then VIR a few weeks later. However, a garage mishap with a cutoff wheel today required emergency surgery on my left thumb. The extensor tendon was cut. Racing on hold for 3-6 months. So....this project is in hold until I can grip the wheel again.
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