Why do people pick the E30 M3 to do an engine swap?

[alexwagner]

I have two E30 M3's:
- a bone stock collector's car (pristine, 2 owners, 58.000 miles, very high std spec, limited edition version...)
- a near-DTM spec 2.5L S14 road racer built to rev to 9000 and developping circa 300 BHP

I would love to add a 3rd E30 M3 : a clean S54 6-speed road car, for longer distance GT-type duties. I can certainly see the appeal and in a GT role the heavy nose wouldn't be an issue.

[Braap]

I read the first page of this thread and decided to post this but when time allows I'll get thru the whole thing. Anyways......


I've had my 88 E30 M since 91. A couple of front end hits here and there. Improper repair has cost me now to replace the front clip due to misalignments and cancer (rust). All is well now and back together........ So as I'm slapping parts back on it and replacing almost everything that is questionable on its performance. So I decided to contact VAC motorsport for a quote on rebuilding my 97k S14 engine clean and sexy. Their response was $11k for a full 3 stage job........ LMFAO....... sigh. I love the shit out of my S14 power plant but not $11k worth, F that! It so happens that I'm a master mechanic by heart and professionally. Eventually I will be slamming this baby on a bench like a mad scientist and get it done at some point and in the meantime I’ll slap a Neon SOHC 2.2 scooter motor in it to move around........ I just have to make personal time vs. professional time. I recently landed on a deal consisting of a S54 with 87k, tranny attached, cluster, harness, pedal and keys for $5,800. But my pockets are tide up with the restoration so no can't do.

E30 M3's are a rare piece of art. It breaks my heart to see anything other then a BMW engine in it but I'm also a firm believer that if the note has my name on it who the hell are you to tell me what to do with what's mine……..

Wait...so you put a Dodge Neon motor in an e30 M3???? :winner: lol

[Justin(OKC)]

This has been an interesting thread to read and I appreciate the viewpoints of all the posters. I've been a BMW enthusiast for a long time and finally got the chance to purchase an E30 M3 a little over two years ago. I bought the car knowing the S14 would need a rebuild and my intention was to do a 2.5L rebuild. As I have driven the car more and more, there is no doubt I love it but I think I would love it more with more power. After doing some research, I settled on an engine builder and the general specs that I wanted to have on my S14 2.5L. Then....I got the quote...

My local BMW friends always said that for the money, they felt like the S14 just wasn't worth it. Although they had great regard for the engine, they appreciate the car as something that they really did not have the desire to pay for. Their views did not sway me at all.

Last fall I gave the engine builder a call again and the sales guy says, you know you could do an S54 swap for about the same money as we quoted you for the S14 and it will really scream. That little bug in my ear led me to researching, PM's to Yani, a phone conversation to Yani, and a whole lot of indecision. As VAC has posted videos of Yani's "white elephant" I have been observing. I am what some would call a purist. I like to mod but I do like to maintain the integrity of the stock car visually with only mild enhancements.

Having said that, I feel myself accepting that it might be ok to pull the S14 and the dogleg tranny, put them in storage, then do the S54 swap with a 6-speed and have a blast with this car. Not that I'm not having a blast with it now..... It is a tough one for me to decide on.

[The Godfather]

I read the first page of this thread and decided to post this but when time allows I'll get thru the whole thing. Anyways......


I've had my 88 E30 M since 91. A couple of front end hits here and there. Improper repair has cost me now to replace the front clip due to misalignments and cancer (rust). All is well now and back together........ So as I'm slapping parts back on it and replacing almost everything that is questionable on its performance. So I decided to contact VAC motorsport for a quote on rebuilding my 97k S14 engine clean and sexy. Their response was $11k for a full 3 stage job........ LMFAO....... sigh. I love the shit out of my S14 power plant but not $11k worth, F that! It so happens that I'm a master mechanic by heart and professionally. Eventually I will be slamming this baby on a bench like a mad scientist and get it done at some point and in the meantime I’ll slap a Neon SOHC 2.2 scooter motor in it to move around........ I just have to make personal time vs. professional time. I recently landed on a deal consisting of a S54 with 87k, tranny attached, cluster, harness, pedal and keys for $5,800. But my pockets are tide up with the restoration so no can't do.

E30 M3's are a rare piece of art. It breaks my heart to see anything other then a BMW engine in it but I'm also a firm believer that if the note has my name on it who the hell are you to tell me what to do with what's mine……..

[shareifmomo]

http://youtu.be/1faOLL1s34U

[mpire]

What's a Z3 coupe going for these days? Really don't think those will really appreciate in price. M coupes will, especially the S54 ones.

The Z3 Coupes are priced all over the place. Some as low as 10, some all the way up at 15.

I don't know if the Z3 Coupes will go up in value much, but they probably will based on their rarity. Hell, there are more than enough E36 M3s but its damned near impossible to find a clean low mileage example for anything under 20k.

There are only around 3000 M Coupes in the Americas. Of that, 677 are S54 Coupes.

You can pick up an S52 M Coupe for as low as 15 these days.

The S54 Coupes have sold as high as 40k recently, but I would say 23-27 is probably more realistic.

You can always check www.mcoupebuyersguide.com if you are salivating over a Coupe.

We track the sales daily, and recently we were able to get KBB to update their pricing on the Coupes to be more realistic. The cartel is in effect.

[mpire]

For those of us who have done a full body rebuild, or the ones that plan on doing a full body rebuild, we know you can't buy the rear window and C pillar setup.

Do you know where to buy those parts?

If you are building a beast, you would want wider fenders than stock anyway.

The suspension isn't really all that big a deal, and can be sourced from several places.

There are plenty of options for the front fenders.

Lots of options for rear flared fenders.

Deck spoilers, etc.

However I have yet to see an aftermarket alternative for adding the M3's rear window and C pillar extensions.

[chutrain]

What's a Z3 coupe going for these days? Really don't think those will really appreciate
in price. M coupes will, especially the S54 ones.

My statement was in response to your statement that slapping a decklid and a rear
window would stop people from using the E30 M3 and drop prices. Usually with all the
body work to get the quarters, decklid, C pillar extension, interior pieces if there is one,
the front fenders, front and rear bumpers, and the 5 lug suspension, I would say
that it would probably be more cost effective to get the E30 M3 than start with a
base 318 or 325.

[mpire]

Not really a valid argument. The Z3 Coupes are pretty damned rare as well.

11,523 Z3 Coupes
6,292 M Coupes

VS

E30 M3 17,184
E30 2 Door Coupes 301,769 (That is just my estimate and could be a bit off.)

These numbers are world wide production of course.

[chutrain]

The truly ironic part of this is that if you could buy the rear window and trunk-lid setup cheaply, no one would bother using the E30 M3 shells.

However, it would also make your beloved E30 M3s almost worthless.

Doubt it. In the end it's still a replica. Does putting a S52/S54 motor in a standard Z3
make it a M Coupe or drive the prices down?

[mpire]

The truly ironic part of this is that if you could buy the rear window and trunk-lid setup cheaply, no one would bother using the E30 M3 shells.

However, it would also make your beloved E30 M3s almost worthless.

[Dave @nz]

Hi,
I like the idea of returning it to original or keeping all the parts for resale or when you want to restore it it is all there.

On that the M3 is a factory built race car and and won all the races in the 80s and 90s under S14 power and has history and pedigree which is unmatched.

Most M3 owners know of the development history of the S14 and BMW Motorsport chief Paul Rosche designed it.

Sure a big six would make a nice drive and if you brought a rolling shell would be a good option, but removing a sweet running S14 to install a sweet running six I am not sure about.

Seems to me there will be a shortage of pristine examples M3s, with some conversions which wont be finished for various reasons.

I don't know of the the development history the of the BMW six cylinder engines other than the S 38 engine and if any of them have won any races to speak off.
I agree in the end the owner can do what they please with their car.

Dave.

[Reelizmpro]

For my S38 swap, I'm keeping the S14...slowly doing a 2.5 which I've acquired all of the parts for already and I'm not modifying anything (other then the air box bracket) that I can't drop the original S14 right back into it. If your going to swap, keep the original equipment. That's the only way to do it.

This is actually a pretty good idea if you have to have a swap. Although I doubt anyone would swap the S14 back in unless they were selling the car to a purist or just missed the characteristics of an S14'd car.

[e30polak]

lol
I been in a s50 swapped e30 325i.
I really wasn't that impressed.
I think my stock engine in my super eta that
I stroked by putting the 325i top end is pretty close in acceleration.
I know my supercharged e36 was faster.

While your 2.7i m20 car may have "felt" as fast, there is a considerable difference acceleration wise between the 2 set-ups. A 2.7i e30 will still have trouble keeping up with an e36 M3, while the US s50/2 e30 can keep up with/beat a e46 M3.

This debate has been beaten to hell so many times it's not funny.

In the end, each owner can do what they please with their car. I personally love a properly built s14, but I prefer them in a light 2002. :gotcha:

While they can be pretty fast in fully worked 2.3/2.5 versions, they simply don't have the torque that the 6 cylinder swaps offer. I realize these cars weren't built for straight line racing, but they can become very robust with 200+whp * wtq.

I used to own a nicely set-up s52 325, with a dialed in coil-over setup, big brakes, etc. My car handled just as well if not better then my friend's similarly modified s14 M3. The biggest difference in front end weight is tight downhill turns, however this can be remedied for the most part.

I can't wait to have my s54 swap going. The 300+whp, 8000+ reldine, and intoxicating CSL sound, will make my M3 an absolute monster, with a real M engine!

To each his own. Purists will hate, but most enthusiasts will apprecoate a properly built M3 with either the s14 or a 6 cylinder variant. [peace]

[Anders]

The stock cars have little to do with the DTM race monsters!!!!

I agree with ^^^. Almost every part of the car was replaced or modified on the DTM cars.