E30 s14 turbo conversions who else?

[LeeVuong]

Originally posted by Ironhead
Not trying to be that way exactly....but costs are very relevant here. People wanting to do things to their car deserve to have an almost realistic idea what it is going to cost....

These claims about the turbo motor costs are similar to the guys who think they can build a 300 HP 2.5 S14 for $2500, because that is what the crank and pistons cost......

:rolleyes:

There are a happy few around here who do not have to pay somebody else to do the work. I am gifted and do all my mechanical duties. I can build a 170HP M10 motor for $1500 including machining. If I had to fork that job to someone, that same motor would cost me triple (at least) that amount. I built my 2002 racecar myself, developped most of the parts and ended with car that has triple the value of what I put in. And BTW I enjoy wrenching and engineering. I'd rather be in my backyard designing a new part than spending money, being bored at the shopping mall. And instead of paying $200 for somenbody else to change my rotors, pads and bleed the brakes, I do it myself and only have to pay for parts. Obviously I get your point that parts are only a fraction of the whole cost for ost of us. But hey, I haven't had to pay a mechanic for the past 10 years. Which is why I can afford a 2002 racecar, Hartge H23 and e30 M3 in summer.

[HANDBLT]

Originally posted by Ironhead


These claims about the turbo motor costs are similar to the guys who think they can build a 300 HP 2.5 S14 for $2500, because that is what the crank and pistons cost......

:rolleyes:

He didn't replace the crank and pistons, he added a plate to lower the CR.

:battle:

Sorry I'm drunk and happy.

Half full, you friggin pesimist.............

T

[WBSAK03]

Lee, congrats on being gifted! Most of us wish we were as gifted as you, but our glasses are half empty so we simply accept our limited abilities. Let's see that build sheet for the 02! We'll establish a build tally, then put her on ebay to see what she brings!

$2,400 turbo set-up! Sweet deal, guy. I hope it works well for many more miles. Though it goes against my belief of what an E30 M3 is all about, it's your ride so enjoy it.

[arvzs1]

Originally posted by WBSAK03
Lee, congrats on being gifted! Most of us wish we were as gifted as you, but our glasses are half empty so we simply accept our limited abilities. Let's see that build sheet for the 02! We'll establish a build tally, then put her on ebay to see what she brings!

$2,400 turbo set-up! Sweet deal, guy. I hope it works well for many more miles. Though it goes against my belief of what an E30 M3 is all about, it's your ride so enjoy it.

AMEN!!!

[LeeVuong]

Originally posted by WBSAK03
Lee, congrats on being gifted! Most of us wish we were as gifted as you...

Hopefully, everyone understood that I used the word "gifted" not as if I was the Holy One, but rather that I was mechanically enclined. Good night everyone.

[Ironhead]

Originally posted by HANDBLT
He didn't replace the crank and pistons, he added a plate to lower the CR.

:battle:

Sorry I'm drunk and happy.

Half full, you friggin pesimist.............

T

Realist, you friggin drunk happy guy......:p

[Ironhead]

Originally posted by LeeVuong
There are a happy few around here who do not have to pay somebody else to do the work. I am gifted and do all my mechanical duties. I can build a 170HP M10 motor for $1500 including machining. If I had to fork that job to someone, that same motor would cost me triple (at least) that amount. I built my 2002 racecar myself, developped most of the parts and ended with car that has triple the value of what I put in. And BTW I enjoy wrenching and engineering. I'd rather be in my backyard designing a new part than spending money, being bored at the shopping mall. And instead of paying $200 for somenbody else to change my rotors, pads and bleed the brakes, I do it myself and only have to pay for parts. Obviously I get your point that parts are only a fraction of the whole cost for ost of us. But hey, I haven't had to pay a mechanic for the past 10 years. Which is why I can afford a 2002 racecar, Hartge H23 and e30 M3 in summer.

OK Lee... I understand what you are saying....but read what I said.

So you are handy. Could you build a decent turbo manifold at home? Probably not, right? How much do you think it would cost to have one built? Even at "mate rate"? Just that one part is a big fabrication job. If there is a place to get an "off the shelf" turbo manifold for an S14, and I don't know of one, what does it cost? That is one small part of the turbo conversion.

All I am asking is that people try to be realistic. People look to this site for options and advice. I think it is wrong to mislead them with overly optimistic information about mods and projects.

Thats all I am saying.

[HANDBLT]

Originally posted by Ironhead
OK Lee... I understand what you are saying....but read what I said.

So you are handy. Could you build a decent turbo manifold at home? Probably not, right? How much do you think it would cost to have one built? Even at "mate rate"? Just that one part is a big fabrication job. If there is a place to get an "off the shelf" turbo manifold for an S14, and I don't know of one, what does it cost? That is one small part of the turbo conversion.

All I am asking is that people try to be realistic. People look to this site for options and advice. I think it is wrong to mislead them with overly optimistic information about mods and projects.

Thats all I am saying.

half full dammit....

T

[Revmaster T]

Martybee 58 please give us some details on cost and how you did the fabrication etc.etc.

Thomas

[liquidtension]

people make turboing an s14 sound so complicated saying it has high CR and other stuff... in fact the only hard part about the turbo conversion is the exhaust manifold.. thats the only extra complicated issue about it ...(imho)
the m3 efi is great.. at least it is not CIS-E injection...
you could always use a piggyback like smt6 ... (www.perfectpower.com) they currently have a xmas offer ... two units for the price of one so if u get it from bob ida (US dealer) thats $195/unit which is dirt cheap... (for ~$60 extra you can also get rid of the AFM and use a MAP with smt6)

you'd need to lower compression (you could use a spacer to bring it down from 10.5:1 to 8.5-9:1) or even stack gaskets to save money (working great on my golf)

you'd also need bigger injectors depending on how much HP you want... if you're shooting for around 300hp 440cc/min would be great you can get 4 of them for ~$170) http://home.comcast.net/~usrallyteam/injectors.html

you need a wideband to tune smt6 ( u can get zt-2 http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm for $280 but it doesnt come with an LCD but you already need a laptop for smt6 so you'd use it with the zt-2 as well and save money)

piping doesnt cost shit (unless you want it all shiny and stuff)

intercooler ---> visit the junkyards ( ~$30 )

u'd only have to buy the turbo for around $500 if u want a t3/t4... if u even want you could get a t3 .60 from a nissan 300zx and call it a day

wastegate >>> use integral wastegate
bov >>> new bosch 710N DV for $25
oil feed and return lines arent expensive at all .. nor is getting the oil pan tapped

getting a DP made doesnt cost alot too (well im speaking from my experience in lebanon i dont know you guys but dont you have any friends that can weld ??)

boost control >>> mbc for $25 available everywhere http://www.dawesdevices.com/basic.html

boost gauge > 42 draft designs VDO boost/vac gauge with red led (for oem look) for $30 http://www.42draftdesigns.com/product/vc150121.htm

it is so easy lets add up the prices for stuff:


ok so thats $755, you'd still need a turbo,manifold,dp,lower CR

you could either get a used t3 .60 and run low boost on stock CR, and have crazy torque
or you could stack gaskets, turbo for $500 and get the DP made

so really you are still easily below $2000 and u have an efi which you can control and tune properly with the wideband, everybody knows it isnt that difficult .. but the thing is a tiny mistake could cost you alot of $$$$, like the signal for the wastegate coming off for example...etc. (happened to me before but luckily i just blew the gasket ... which was a motivation to go buy metal gaskets and stack them to lower CR)
all that im saying is that it is easily doable.. and doesnt cost a fortune to build if you dotn mind getting some grease on your hands!! the manifold is the shitty part ... its location isnt friendly at all and it would be a very tight fitment ... thats all

but imho its better to go buy a normal e30 and build a crazy turbo engine on that ...and leave the m3 n/a .. btw i hope you turbo guys are letting the oil circulate before shutting the engine ... i blew a turbo because i hated waiting... which is what i love about n/a .. you can really drive it hard and not worry about stuff breaking all the time... i think its more hardcore.. power isnt everything

[erik bernstein]

In my experience, turbos, superchargers, are fun, but if you want a true track driveable car, stay away from it, unless you are willing to put the type of money and engineering that people like Porsche do. Turbos and superchargers, if they are really making good power, always heat up too quick, and don't spend as much time on the track as naturally aspirated built motors! At least that's my opinion!!!

[liquidtension]

yup you are right ... we dont have tracks here for the public, but from daily driving i noticed that the golf had higher temps and engine bay temps etc. after the turbo.. so you always have to think "i should take it easy its a delicate turbo car" and even let it idle so the oil circulates before shutting it down... with n/a cars it doesnt matter you can beat the living crap out of the car driving it as hard as you want keeping the revs up and you arent so scared... thats what i love about the n/a s14 ... revving the crap out of it to get nice power is very pleasing and relieves body tension, whereas with the turbo it feels different and its more cold and without feeling

[Anders]

Originally posted by liquidtension
with n/a cars it doesnt matter you can beat the living crap out of the car driving it as hard as you want keeping the revs up and you arent so scared... thats what i love about the n/a s14

Just a spun rod bearing here and there, nothing major... How many people on this forum have not blown a motor??

[Ironhead]

Originally posted by liquidtension
revving the crap out of it to get nice power is very pleasing and relieves body tension, whereas with the turbo it feels different and its more cold and without feeling

A setup like this.....and I am not gonna take it.:OMG:

[hardtailer]

Re: E30 s14 turbo conversions who else?

Originally posted by martybee58
...
Megasquirt fully mappable engine management with Ford EDIS4, crank sensor and coil pack.
...

Now we're talking!!
I have a couple of questions for you:

I built a megajolt lite jr. to run Ford's EDIS but have not yet come to the stage of programming it, let alone mounting the trigger wheel and sensor.

-what trigger wheel have you used (I got this one: http://aus-www.rasip.fer.hr/users/dp...LE12A227BC.jpg
and did you mount it at the front face of the harmonic balancer or at the rear face, closest to the timing chain cover?

-do you have pics of your setup, especially of the sensor mount?

-from where do you pick up your MAP signal?
-did you encounter the strong pulsing that is said to be prohibitive (or at least a drawback) of using MAP for engine load with individual inake runners?

did you stick with the standard ignition timing or did you have to re-program that because of the turbo application?
If you stuck with OEM timing how did you go about to find out the correlation between the AFM voltage and the MAP voltage?

thanks in advance for the info.