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Turbos for idiots?

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  • Turbos for idiots?

    Or...I need a mentor.

    Just trying to do some research. Had another S54 fail this past weekend. That's 3 in about 15 months. Thinking about another motor. 2 of the options are turbos. And I know nothing about turbos so SURE why not?

    Letting the cat out of bag if I do this...but here goes. The 2 options are an S14 and an M50. I already have the firewall moved back for the S54 so the balance issues are a non-issue. The main rule is they have to have a displacement of no more than 1986cc. The S14 2L is actually 1990 cc...so I'd need to remove 4cc of displacement. I have a lead on an M50B20 which I think has a displacement of 1991cc....so need to remove 5 cc. I can either sleeve to reduce bore or destroke. It appears the S14 needs to be destroked 0.2mm. Either option needs a machine shop that is competent to do the work. It appears that the M50 has a bore that is significantly less than its bigger brothers (80mm vs 84+). My S54 was about 350rwhp. That or a bit more (I have no fears of running 104 all the time as I did it with the S54) would be nice.

    Thoughts?

    What are the options out there for turbo S14 parts? Like the header in particular.

  • #2
    http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac-...old-p1925.aspx

    Header here.

    Comment


    • #3
      There's a lot more to it than the header. You need the manifold, the downpipe, all the intercooler piping, etc, etc.. Take a look @ Anders' Thread to get an idea...

      With that said, a shop that does this type of work can do everything I just mentioned with your car in house to do the fabrication.... Just expect to pay a bunch of $$$ just to get that aspect of it taken care of, and that doesn't even include the motor build, wiring, electronics, tuning, etc...

      Personally, I'd love to duplicate a turbo setup like Anders did... But it would be a stupid long project for me and that's not something I need anywhere in the short term.


      EDIT: 666 Fabrication Can Make a Manifold, which is the one VAC carries... A Thread:
      http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread...ld-has-arrived
      Last edited by Brendan; 05-25-2012, 02:35 PM.
      sigpic
      Track Car Build | COM Sports Car Club

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      • #4
        ^ B is right, forced induction on an ITB motor is tricky. It's hard enough trying not to spin a bearing on an S14 motor. The considerations for doung a turbo install has to be a comprehensive system. Everything has to be methodically thought out as Anders and Dave have done. Do a search and read the turbo builds here its not too long a read but very enlightening. I'm almost done but standalone and good tuning is vital. 350-600 whp is very realistic, but expensive as is most roads least travelled but if you're going on your 4th S54... Go for it!
        Rich!

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        • #5
          I vote for the M50!

          Comment


          • #6
            I vote M10 , those things are a beast when turbo'd besides, there are a ton of them at the local yards.

            Comment


            • #7
              How about one of these...........................

              http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/01/19/bm...linder-engine/
              Several E30 M3's.

              More than I need but not as many as I want....

              Comment


              • #8
                Not enough toitalled cars out there to get the motor. Plus at that displacement it would be a CM motor. If I do turbo I'd want to fit into DM. That motor needs to lose 11 cc of displacement to do that. Plus 240 isn't enough...not sure how well the new motor takes tuning.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you want big power out of small displacement, turbo is the way to go. You could tune for peak power, or a very flat power curve while limiting peak power that would be awesome for GTS. I would love to turbo my car....

                  But, it's a custom deal and the tuning is even more involved than NA, and it's more complex in general with more things to go wrong. For example, you're now adding in boost control as a factor, an can no longer run Alpha-n, you need to go with MAP or MAF which can be tricky on an ITB engine. Plus, add in the extra power the car is making, and there's a lot of parts getting more stress through them that are liable to break.

                  There'd be something to be said for using an engine that's more readily available and cheaper than the S14 in case it does blow up...
                  sigpic
                  Track Car Build | COM Sports Car Club

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brendan View Post
                    If you want big power out of small displacement, turbo is the way to go. You could tune for peak power, or a very flat power curve while limiting peak power that would be awesome for GTS. I would love to turbo my car....

                    But, it's a custom deal and the tuning is even more involved than NA, and it's more complex in general with more things to go wrong. For example, you're now adding in boost control as a factor, an can no longer run Alpha-n, you need to go with MAP or MAF which can be tricky on an ITB engine. Plus, add in the extra power the car is making, and there's a lot of parts getting more stress through them that are liable to break.

                    There'd be something to be said for using an engine that's more readily available and cheaper than the S14 in case it does blow up...
                    I agree with every word of this.

                    My vote is M50 Turbo for build costs, reliability, and power. A 2.0L M50, with a GTX3076R, m3 cams or custom cams, and 20-25 psi, woulld make for great, reliable power! You can use blow-thru set-ups from either TRM, Miller Performance, RK Tunes, or retain you stand alone set-up and have Jon (5mall5nail) or Mike Radowski from bimmerforums tune your car!

                    IMO the S14, even fully built, would still scare me on the track with a turbo set-up. The build costs are very pricey, there are no easy tuning solutions, and the potential for engine failure in the tuning process or on the track is very high in comparison to the M50.
                    Need a good mechanic/fabricator/performance shop in SoCal?
                    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=155404

                    Castro Motorsport

                    12600 Sherman Way, Unit C
                    North Hollywood, CA 91605
                    (818) 765-3606

                    The Purple ///Monster Build:
                    http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47251

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                    • #11
                      I've been thinking about a turbo build myself...and with what I read about the ITB issue, why not have a custom intake mani fabed up along with a big, single TB? That should work, right? I've discussed it with my fabricator, and he likes the idea. Not sure I've seen it done. Of course a standalone EMS, and competent tuner, would be the key to making everything run!

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                      • #12
                        My m10 turbo is a 2.15 liter but could be easily built as a 1950cc. at 22psi it is 465bhp. I track it and it really works well.


                        There is no tuning issue with ITB's and turbos. Just need to know what you are doing. IE not try to run speed density with crappy vacuum signals.

                        My particular engine runs in the "alpha n" mode with a pressure offset. I have a schrick 304 cam that requires that configuration.
                        Last edited by Mr Deagle; 08-06-2012, 07:35 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Some of you old heads will remember the 2002's out of sweeden running 700+hp S14 turbo's in their drag cars... One was blue/silver and the other was orange.

                          Karl Kraus --Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to prove that
                          they are not idiots.

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                          • #14
                            Found one of them.

                            http://www.phnet.fi/public/tero.lauk...nglish/Car.htm

                            Karl Kraus --Education is a crutch with which the foolish attack the wise to prove that
                            they are not idiots.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I pushed the "easy" button and put another S54 in.

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